Cis Women, You Can’t Support Trans Women And Push The Bathroom Predator Meme
October 26, 2012
I Get The Anger, But Hate Isn’t The Answer
October 27, 2012

What Did Roseanne Say That Was So Transphobic?

I heard that question asked over and over on Twitter last night after Roseanne Barr tweeted:

Well the short answer is, “where do I start?” Barr is speaking of is Colleen Francis. Francis was using the sauna in a women’s locker room inside the recreation center at Evergreen State College, when a few girls from a local swim team complained.

What do I find transphobic about Barr’s statement?

I’ve not seen ONE media report that says Francis is a preoperative transsexual. I’ve not seen ONE media report that the girls in question saw Francis’ genitals. It only said:

“They’re uncomfortable with him being in there, her, being in there and are shocked by it,” said parent Kristi Holterman.

But Barr’s comments only got worse:

Regardless of what the perception of the world is of a trans woman, she is still not a woman in Barr’s eyes. No matter if a trans woman is perceived by her employers, friends, and society as woman, they’re still a man to Barr. It doesn’t matter that they will get paid less than than a man, get fewer promotions than a man, or be poorer than a man. It won’t matter that they are sexually harassed as women, unsafe in men’s space because they are perceived to be women, and and suffer from misogyny. None of that matters to Barr. What matters is what no one sees, namely their genitals.

Transgender women shouldn’t be there because young girls are uncomfortable? Should lesbians be barred because they might make these girls uncomfortable? Try replacing transgender with “black”, “jewish”, or “lesbian” and then tell me that it’s not transphobic.

What people should be uncomfortable with is hating/discriminating against someone they don’t understand. In the words of McCassidy123:

“I am a captain of the swim team at Capital High School (one of the swim teams that practices at the college) I personally do not have any issue with the woman being in our locker room so to generalize that the “girls are uncomfortable” is not true. I feel this woman has just as much of a right to be there than anyone else and am annoyed how out of control this has gotten.”

I’m glad that this teen actually gets it. Gets the REALITY that trans women, post-op or pre-op, are not a danger.  She’s not falling for the mythical “transgender predator” meme. I wish Barr was enlightened as this teen is, but can I  really expect enlightenment from someone that wrote:

Then the Transgendered versus the Butch Dyke wars started—to see two of those folks fighting about being female was quite an eye-opener for me. You haven’t lived until you have seen a huge guy with boobs talking about female hormones and deciding to keep his penis, and how that was a feminist issue.” – Roseanne Barr from “Roseannearchy: Dispatches from the Nut Farm

From Barr I probably shouldn’t expect much.

Marti Abernathey
Marti Abernathey
Marti Abernathey is the founder of the Transadvocate and the previous managing editor. Abernathey has worn many different hats, including that of podcaster, activist, and radiologic technologist. She's been a part of various internet radio ventures such as TSR Live!, The T-Party, and The Radical Trannies, TransFM, and Sodium Pentathol Sunday. As an advocate she's previously been involved with the Indiana Transgender Rights Advocacy Alliance, Rock Indiana Campaign for Equality, and the National Transgender Advocacy Coalition. She's taken vital roles as a grass roots community organizer in The Indianapolis Tax Day Protest (2003), The Indy Pride HRC Protest (2004), Transgender Day of Remembrance (2004), Indiana's Witch Hunt (2005), and the Rally At The Statehouse (the largest ever GLBT protest in Indiana - 3/2005). In 2008 she was a delegate from Indiana to the Democratic National Convention and a member of Barack Obama's LGBT Steering and Policy Committee.
  • Travis

    Okay… I really just wanted to read these comments and continue with my day, but I feel now may be the time for me to weigh in. I am a straight, white, cis male, but I am not an MRA. To the best of my understanding I am a feminist and an ally of the LGBTQIA community (and probably some other things too). As a person, I would love to see the day when no-one person will ever have to hesitate or feel uncomfortable simply using the bathroom. While I do not wish to speak for for NONONO, but I think I understand what she is trying to articulate. I doubt that NONONO feels every male (primarily cis) is purposely discriminating against transgender folks and cis women, but she certainly is speaking outwardly against rape culture (as should everyone) and the overwhelming evidence that cis males are the number one perpetrators of fueling America’s rape culture. I haven’t read all the comments, but the comments seem to primarily be coming from cis women (NONONO – and forgive me if I am wrong on this, but your comments in this thread give evidence to support it) and MtF transgender individuals, and now enter the cis white male. I will not try to fully understand the views and concerns with either of the other two+ groups as I am not a member of these either of these. There are plenty of views coming from individuals in this thread that help me understand the struggles and values/concerns of not only different groups of people but individuals themselves. With that being said, I will not pretend to know that I understand what any of you are going through (any more than I expect you to have the same understanding about me). I would like to say that a large portion of the cis male (penis) group of people truly feel that they do not contribute to the rape culture of our society (I am one of those people). However, I do understand that my mere existence and presence in a situation affords me privileges over others that I do not necessarily see, want, or understand, but they do occur daily. I would love if we could have non-segregated restrooms where anyone could just use the bathroom, but I don’t pretend to comprehend the desire for segregated restrooms because of fear. Being who I am, I do not feel fear or that there is the potential for danger whenever I use the restroom. Hey, that seems like a privilege to me. I do, however, respect someone’s desire for segregated restrooms (because of rape culture, not a misunderstanding of someone, ie. transphobia). While I may sit here typing away from behind a computer screen talking about how I empathize with other groups of people and I wish everyone could just simply use the bathroom, I do not know any of the personal struggles someone else has had, the perceived struggles and fear that could become a reality at any given moment, or hate (misogyny, transphobia, homophobia, racism, etc.). What I do know is that everyone has a right to feel safe in whatever they are doing; everyone has a right to voice their opinions, stupid or insightful; everyone should and needs to respect all other people. So if segregated restrooms that separate penises from no penises is something people want because it makes them feel safe, then I don’t see a problem with it. If someone is going participate in sexual assault, abuse, exposure, etc. in a public restroom, then they are going to do it. Cis male or female, trans male or female, it doesn’t make a difference. Rape and abuse are still rape and abuse. So let’s just all find a place that we feel safe so each of us can just go to the bathroom. I don’t care where someone else chooses to do their business as long as it makes them feel safe and they are being respectful of other.

  • Pingback: Sassy Saint Hermes()

  • Pingback: Media Barr Roseanne From Criticizing Cosby, But Trans Women HELL YES! | Loving is living()

  • Pingback: Roseanne Barr doesn’t deserve any admiration | Feminist Forte()

  • Pingback: Feminism doesn’t want me and I don’t want feminism | New Black Woman()

  • Pingback: An open Letter to Cathy Brennan |()

  • Here’s a summary:

    Someone: [makes an argument against creationism]
    NONONO: ‘You’re of the Devil!!’
    Someone: [makes an argument against creationism]
    NONONO: ‘You’re of the Devil!!’
    Someone: [makes an argument against creationism]
    NONONO: ‘You’re of the Devil!!’

    Oh sorry, I mixed this up with a different site. Here’s the corrected version:

    Someone: [makes an argument against transmisogyny]
    NONONO: ‘You’re an MRA!!’
    Someone: [makes an argument against transmisogyny]
    NONONO: ‘You’re an MRA!!’
    Someone: [makes an argument against transmisogyny]
    NONONO: ‘You’re an MRA!!’

    Your rants *totally* make sense now.

  • I would feel very threatened and uncomfortable if I were to see Rosanne Barf in the same bathroom I was using, but that’s my problem. A lot of people make me feel uncomfortable but I don’t have any right to force people to not make me feel that way. Guess I’ll have to deal with it.

    • Sean

      That’s not how the world works. The world wants you to cry and complain stomp your feet and hold your breath if you’re a woman, if you’re a man you shut up and take it.

      Hence why as a dude I get cat-called all the time by groups of women yet am unable to say or do anything about it.

      I even look too long at a woman and she can charge me with some kind of ill-attempted harassment.

  • Why do you care what Roseanne Barr thinks???

    • why does anyone care what roseanne barf thinks ? her 15 minutes were up decades ago.

  • Val Nyholm

    Seem this over weighted so called butch lesbian doesn’t know what happend sexdrive and erection in process of a transwoman. I would keep Roseanne out of young girls locker and bathrooms, because there’s no quarentee safe of a young girls. Not just by sexually meaning, but what kind bs she might spread and those girls would believe her bs, simply because she’s too ignorent to find out what’s is all about been transwoman or transman and because she’s most of the people to be known.

  • Bored

    Have any of you heard the phrase – Dont feed the Troll? NoNoNo is trolling here and has no logical argument (but can use cut n paste). So ignore him or her and they will go waste their limited intellect elsewhere.

  • Pingback: Sunday News Round-Up, Level 90 Edition « Women's Health News()


    Sorry to burst your bubble but nobody could care less if you want to be a male or a female. It’s about MEN in WOMENS spaces. It’s about male/female segregation which women WANT. You’re misinterpreting it as Transphobia when NOBODY CARES if the person with a penis is male or female or trans or WHATEVER!!!! They do however care about men in women spaces. As I said below in reply to someone, your whole arguments are in line with the mens rights movement and are the antithesis to female rights. But it’s men that are killing you my love!!! Get a grip and embrace feminism properly. Know who is killing you and raping you and ‘get with the programme’ will you?

    • Moon

      Wow, you are a really angry person.

      • NONONO

        Um not really…….It’s just the internet, it limits the full spectrum of emotion…… I emphatically want to sort out this whole women/trans mess with segregated spaces so we can all move forward and the Trans community (both MtF and FtM) can receive the full range of help from all women that they desperately need. This issue is causing great harm to the Transequality movement and it will be until it is understood that women will not give up penis/nonpenis segregated spaces in the rape culture we live in.

        • Toni Huttman

          Sorry, but it says “men” and “women” on doors, NOT “penis” and “no penis.” So you lose… And the majority of people do not intend to change that any time soon, because they are not paranoid schizophrenic Radical Feminists mentally masturbating day in, day out about phantom menace genitalia. So you lose…

          Ex] other ladies at my gym. I’ve been using the ladies’ locker room a few times a week for a year and NO ONE has EVER complained.

          • NONONO

            Why do Grace & Hermes agree. They are both Post-op Trans? Or maybe (if not full post-op) because they have lived as women FULLY for a number of years (passing?). Pre-op trans could learn a lot from post-op trans, instead it seems you like to bash and belittle them. Pre-op trans could learn a lot from feminists but you like to bash and belittle them too. What I have learnt from my first encounter with trans-feminism on here is this: Post op transwomen and/or transwomen who have lived as women (passing) for a long time act and behave like ALL WOMEN. They have lived experience and understand womens fears etc. Pre-op trans are more suited to the Mens rights activists movement and seem to behave like misogynistic over-bearing rude insulting men towards all women INCLUDING TRANSWOMEN who have transitioned/or pass very well. If the Trans community could stop being oversensitive to the slightest criticism, they could learn a lot. We all could learn a lot about what is innate and what is learned behaviour. Instead you choose to belittle and berate women, including women who are trans!!! Thanks for the insight! I support transwomen who pass as women. That is, who ACTUALLY are at the receiving end of misogyny and understand women. The rest of you mens right activists I will care about when you care about all of us who pass as women. That’s my final say on the matter.

          • hermes daughter

            Actually Grace and myself are not in complete agreement. I certainly do agree with her that it is appropriate to wait until after reassignment surgery to engage in public nudity, particularly in sexually segregated spaces. However I do not agree with her on rest rooms, and I believe that my position is consistent with the so called “standards of care”. According to the standards of care, anyone that is preparing to undergo reassignment surgery should undergo a so called “real life test” for at least a year. In the real life test the candidate for reassignment surgery needs to change their documentation and identification papers to their new name and to their identified gender to the extent allowed by state law and to live full time in their identified gender. No one needs to use a public changing room, but people do need to use rest rooms and the reality is that it is not always possible to find a single occupancy rest room. Trans women that are doing their so called real life test are no threat to any woman. It seems to me to pose a real hardship on trans women that are doing their real life test to force the to use a men’s room. Keeping predators out of women only spaces can be easily accomplished by policing therapist to keep them from writing letters to help people like Colleen Francis to change the gender marker on their drivers license.

    • Kathy

      The caps in your comments enhance the impression of your reasonableness. Keep it up!

      • NONONO

        THANKS!!!! I’LL TRY!!! 🙂

        • Kathy

          You’re quite welcome. By the way – congratulations on your MISS BORDERLINE Contest win!

          • NONONO


          • Kathy

            You’re an inspiration for treating people poorly – so – you can thank yourself. But – blame your therapists.

          • NONONO

            I’ve never had therapy nor has it been suggested I need it by anyone who knows me thanks. I’ve said nothing hateful. You’re lying. You have nothing else to say against me so you’ve resorted to lying and insults. You’ve taken the p*ss out of people suffering mental distress. The people who read this blog are not coming across as a nice bunch of people really………you included. Now go away please.

          • Kathy

            I’m sure it’s been strongly suggested. You’re just in denial.

            It’s never been an aspiration of mine to be “nice” to those who foster oppression. Though I understand some who foster it like to feign such about themselves. It’s a tactic – not a personal quality on their part. There’s a very simple solution if someone is genuine and they find others less than “nice” to associate with. Refrain from intruding more than required – surely you can’t avoid sharing subways, streets and other public accomidations – but one needn’t seek out interaction with those you disfavor.

            It’s not the act of one exhibiting rationality – if they’re being truthful regarding their motivations, of course.

          • NONONO

            Yes Kathy whats your point? I am avoiding interacting with people I don’t like. I told you to go away. Please don’t leave anymore comments insulting me. GO AWAY.

          • Kathy

            I do promise not to make comments on your blog. And to insure my safety – if I see you enter a public rest room – I’ll wait a minute or two until to leave before entering to use the facilities. Lord knows what your kind might do.

    • Grace

      “NONONO” is making a compelling argument. I’m post-operative and personally have issues with a penis in the locker room with other women–it just feels inappropriate. Bathroom access leads to locker room access as the slippery slope desired by sexual predatory men. If your pre or non-op then use single stall bathrooms in public that have always been there. Stay out of women’s segregated spaces. That’s not transphobic that’s keeping women’s sex-segregated spaces.

      • mzmartipants

        Right, except that no trans woman that has ever accessed women’s space have used their trans status to rape/sexually assault. Men that want to rape women don’t need permission to do that from the potty police, they’ll do it any way.

        • NONONO

          It’s not about TRANS!!!!! You can’t deny the rape culture we live in associated with the penis!!! Nobody cares if your Trans! That’s lovely you don’t ever rape anyone with your penis. But other men do!! Women are expected to be mind readers are they? Nobody cares who the penis is attached to. Nobody is saying trans rape people. Women are telling you that men rape them, with a penis and penis/nonpenis segregation is what women want! You will not win this fight in the rape culture we live in. There is too much at stake for women to allow this to happen. It has nothing to do with you being Trans!!!!!

          • Actually Yes

            Rape does not require a penis.

            One question, since you seem to think it’s so cut & dried: Which bathroom in your tiny worldview should men with vaginas use?

          • NONONO

            As stated to others on here, which is getting a bit strange to keep repeating myself: Please join the Mens rights movement where they discuss that all rape does not require a penis too. They spend all day trying to find a woman who did a bad thing also. They deny rape culture overwhelmingly by people with a penis. Please note this is the antithesis to feminism. Have fun with the MRA. Thank you.

          • Actualy Yes

            This has nothing to do with men’s rights, and everything to do with a specific subclass of women whom you think it’s okay to direct hatred towards.

          • NONONO

            What hatred? What hateful remark has been made? I don’t believe being trans has anything to do with it. It’s people with a penis and the rape culture all women (including trans women) live in.

          • Anne

            So, honestly, where to trans people go to use the bathroom? To trans men use the women’s room? Do you want someone that looks like Buck Angel in your restroom just because he doesn’t have a penis? Do you want to cast trans women in to the men’s room? Seriously, someone who for all intents and purposes looks exactly like every single other woman in the world using the men’s room — what the hell do you think is going to happen to her, huh? You think they’re not going to assault her just because she happens to have a penis?

            And you do NOT speak for all ciswomen when you speak, lady. Some of us want to protect our friends and family from discrimination and the violence that will come from forcing trans women to use men’s rest rooms. I know what will happen to them, and YOU know full well what will happen, and you just don’t care.

          • NONONO

            I believe Grace said this a few days ago: Grace • a day ago • parent


            Flag as inappropriate

            “NONONO”is making a compelling argument. I’m post-operative and personally
            have issues with a penis in the locker room with other women–it just
            feels inappropriate. Bathroom access leads to locker room access as the
            slippery slope desired by sexual predatory men. If your pre or non-op
            then use single stall bathrooms in public that have always been there.
            Stay out of women’s segregated spaces. That’s not transphobic that’s
            keeping women’s sex-segregated spaces.

      • That’s like saying when you were pre-op you thought of raping women in the women’s spaces because you had a penis. If that’s not the case, then, no, he doesn’t have a point. It must be nice to be post-op though and think of yourself as higher up on the trans hierarchy though.

    • It’s about men in women’s spaces and we’re not men a-hole. I know you want to believe all it takes to be a man is a penis and all it takes to be a woman is a vagina, but nature isn’t that simple and it’s sure not binary. If any men are taking estrogen to rape women they’re in for a big surprise. I have absolutely zero interest in what the woman in the next stall is doing and I would hope they’re as disinterested in what I’m doing in mine. Having a penis or not has way less to do with this than you can imagine because you obviously think with yours.

      • NONONO

        Join the mens right movement! It’s your home. You will find peace there. They deny rape culture, cat-calling, murder, harassment associaited with the penis etc as well. Good luck with that. You’ve picked the side of the people who kill and rape Trans. Well done!

        • Anne

          “You’ve picked the side of the people who kill and rape Trans. Well done!”

          And yet you want to send women in to the men’s room, knowing full well what you will be subjecting them to in there — the people who kill and rape them. Every trans woman, no matter how well she passes, will immediately be outed to everyone around her every time she uses the bathroom. Every time she uses the bathroom, she will be stepping in to the lion’s den. She will never be safe in public. She will never be able to do the most basic of bodily functions without fear. This is what you are advocating for. No matter what words you hide behind, what claims you make, what unfeasible suggestions (“everywhere needs a gender neutral bathroom”), you are always advocating sending trans women into situations where they are going to be raped and murdered. And you are ok with this?

          This is why people are angry with you, and angry with Roseanne. For your personal comfort, you pretend to speak on behalf of all ciswomen (you absolutely DO NOT). For your own comfort, you would send trans women to the slaughter even though you admit that the group you are sending them to rapes and murders them.

          • NONONO

            I’ve answered you above Anne. It’s the comment and answer really. There is room to compromise 🙂

      • NONONO

        “They do however care about men in women spaces” Apologies. I meant they do however care about penis in non-penis segregated places. I do not know how you identify. If you were an FtM who had reconstruction surgery, I would have been correct in saying ‘man’ and I would have insulted an FtM in saying they were a woman. As I don’t know how you identify I cannot know what will insult you, but I do stil apologise if that unintentionally hurt you specifically.

  • Kathy

    Oh – she got that wrong. The trans vs butch wars were transguys. Had nothing to do with trans women. But – what the hell – facts don’t matter when bigots speak.

  • Kathy

    I look forward to her insuring the funds are provided for additional segregated restrooms and other facilities denoted solely for trans people on an equal basis with those available for cisgender people so her plan can afterwards be implemented.

  • Growup

    Is this some weird Utopian dream you’ve got in your heads where grown people with penis walk around naked with little naked girls and it’s all innocent???

    GROW UP!!!!!

    • Why are people walking around naked together at all? Yes, it’s a locker room. Why aren’t the showers separate from the stalls? Why can’t we have dividers in the showers, so that no one has to be naked with anyone else?

      • NONONO

        You’re whole argument hinges on convincing women who WANT segreation of mens/womens spaces to continue; to magically admit that there isn’t a rape culture in society, they don’t get cat-called, the penis is just as fluffy as the vag and basically everything else MENS RIGHTS ACTIVISTS say all the time. It hasn’t worked for mens rights activists. Why do you think it will work for Trans? You’re WHOLE argument is to convince women that segregated spaces are fine and their worries about people with a penis are unfounded! Seriously you are not fighting for womens roghts at all. Really go and join the Mens right movement. Women will never believe you. It’s not about Trans. Join the men’s rights movemnt and be happy!!! Let’s face it, It’s where you belong.

        • NONONO

          *your (apologies) & any other mistakes was in a rush….

        • mzmartipants

          You’re WHOLE argument is to convince women that segregated spaces are
          fine and their worries about people with a penis are unfounded!

          Convince? No, we’re saying if you think trans women (regardless of genital status) are in bathrooms/restrooms to rape/molest/assault, then please provide some proof to back up the assumption. Because there’s proof of trans women being assaulted in mens bathrooms. I know this BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME. I’ve not used a mens room since (and that was 2001). Sorry I’m not going to be sexually assaulted because you don’t feel comfortable.

          • Grace

            Google “Paul Ray Witherspoon”

          • hermes daughter

            Is there any evidence that Paul Ray Witherspoon was actually medically transitioning. Just be cause he wore a dress means nothing. Anyone that has taken estrogen and testosterone blockers longer to legally change their gender on a drivers license in any state is very unlikely to to be biologically capable of molesting anyone. In most states you are legally required to use the restroom corresponding to the gender marker on you drivers license. Some states require GRS to change the gender marker on a drives license others only require a substantial amount of medical transition, usually hormones and perhaps other procedure usually sufficient to substantially and irreversibly change you body in addition to letters from your doctor and or therapist.

          • NONONO

            No I don’t think Trans women rape people. As you have stated yourself, you were assaulted in a bathroom by someone with a penis. Thank you for saying this. This is what women are trying to tell everybody. This is why they WANT penis/nopenis segregated spaces. You are in agreement that you are at risk of assault in toilets that have people with penis’ (peni?) in. I’m confused? You are agreeing with me? Thanks! Your MRA convert trans friend in the other posts is calling you hysterical (NOT ME I’m not calling you that. I agree with you that about the rape culture from people with a penis!) for not wanting to be around people with a penis now when using the loo. Again, this is what women are trying to tell everybody they are at risk from.

        • YESYESYES

          Let me address this issue very simply, and I will use small words so you can follow. Transgender rights are not The Men’s Rights Movement. Trans people just want a safe place to use the bloody restroom, they are not interested in what is between your legs or under your shirt. Most of them are so terrified to be in a public restroom that they hold their heads down low and try not to make eye contact. They go there and do their business and get out as quickly as possible. To make the jump that they are predators just shows a small portion of what is wrong with this world. It is people like you that makes fathers nervous to bathe their children because you are going to assume he has bad intentions on his child. Your attempt to “prove” that this is not a civil rights issue goes to show your naivete. Welcome to the new world, a world where bigots like yourselves will no longer be tolerated, a world where everyone will be treated equally. I am but one of many voices, you and your ilk may silence one of us, but you will never silence ALL of us. Welcome to the Revolution!

          • NONONO

            Nobody is making a ‘jump’ that Trans are predators. Women are telling you that they don’t trust people with a penis because people with a penis rape them. You call me a bigot? That’s just a lie. I have NO problem with Trans. None at all. You however have been rude by ‘using small words so I can follow’ trying to belittle, when there is no need for it at all. That’s not going to help your rights movement. Everytime a Trans speaks 1000 new transphobes are made out of nowhere, such is your communities manner towards people trying to engage with you. If you have to turn to insults etc you should ask yourself if you have a point to make, or if your time might be better reflecting if you might be wrong.

          • “Women are telling you that they don’t trust people with a penis because people with a penis rape them”

            You are aware that not all women have been brutally raped, and not all penis-carring males are rapists? Talking like a caricature of a feminist is actually furthering the so-called “men’s rights” movement’s agenda far more than anything else. You malke them seem almost reasonable (and I loathe the bastards).

          • NONONO

            Please join the Mens rights movement. Your opinions agree that men are misunderstood and women are hysterical and should consider men more and their feelings? You will find peace there. Please understand this is the antithesis to feminism, which seeks to protect Transwomen and all women from the rape culture we live in, which yes, is overwhelmingly by people with a penis. I’m not looking up statistics, it’s the kind of argument one would expect from an MRA.

          • I am trying to avoid the word “hysterical” here but it’s becoming difficult. I loathe and despise the MRA louts. You really don’t realise that you do not speak for all women, far from it, and that your extreme position repels those who might otherwise have sympathised to some extent.

            You don’t know if I am male, female or in between, but you have made assumptions and accusations to suit your narrow world view.

            As it happens, I am in far more danger when I wish to use a public bathroom or changing room than you, and always will be. Just. Shut. Up. Shut up before you make an even bigger noxious fool of yourself.

          • NONONO

            I don’t need to know if you are male/female/whatever to say your views are the same as the MRA’s that you state you hate? My position is extreme? hmmm….. You know that’s what an MRA would say right? It’s extreme to say there is a rape culture in society perpetuated by those who have a penis? really? I see Bell Hooks quoted at the top of this blog (a radical feminist I believe) but the comments from the actual readers of this blog insist that a fairly ordinary feminist view about rape culture is extreme? How bizarre to say the least. Bell hooks and MRA type comments on the same page is just plain strange to see tbh. You “loathe to use the hysterical” but you don’t have an argument and so are resorting to sexist stereotypes and insults, which is exactly what an MRA would say isn’t it? Which is strange on a blog which has a bell hooks quote at the top isn’t it? Please say something that can resolve this matter about penis/nonpenis segregation and try to refrain from insults as it is greatly harming your transequality movement.

          • “I don’t need to know if you are male/female/whatever to say your views
            are the same as the MRA’s that you state you hate?”
            That you don’t need to know is correct. That, however, does not make your wild and frankly offensive claim accurate.

            “My position is extreme?”

            “hmmm….. You know that’s what an MRA would say right?”
            Maybe. It’s also what a reasonable, unbiased person who lives in the real wourld would – and does – say.

            Now stop making your movement a laughing stock. If you want to be taken seriously, you should not act like a clown and make palpably exaggerated claims.

            Trans women are not rapists. They are women. They understand a damn sight more about the reality of the female condition than you do from behind your carefully constructed shield of self-hate and, yes, hysteria.

          • NONONO

            I’m confused as to why you state it is a wild/offensive claim that you sound like an MRA yet at the same time you admit your thoughts ARE in line with an MRA who you describe as a “reasonable, unbiased person”? Are you aware MRA’s have been classified as a ‘hate group’ in the USA? Are you aware no feminist group has ever been classified as a hate group? Thank you for understanding that nobody is saying Trans women are rapist. Trans isn’t actually the issue at all (please see previous posts). I’m not sure what I’ve said to make you think I don’t like myself? As you are getting into more vile sexist insults, which I had a feeling would happen given that it’s the only thing you have left, I think I’ll leave it now. I might pop back though. We’ll see.

          • “you admit your thoughts ARE in line with an MRA”
            I state the exact opposite. Grow up and learn to read.

            “no feminist group has ever been classified as a hate group”
            RadFems are certainly well on the way to being the first then, with their blatant, aggressive and rampant transphobia.

            “Thank you for understanding that nobody is saying Trans women are rapist”
            Again, learn to read. There are some claiming that. They are spreading vicious, hateful lies.

            “As you are getting into more vile sexist insults”
            I have yet to use one. I do get the impression I am talking to an immature, brainwashed kid though. From the virulence and incoherence of your language, I deduce insecurity and some form of self-hate. What form, I frankly don’t care: not my business. But you certainly have issues.

          • Straight Woman

            And I have no problem with you – I just think you shouldn’t be allowed near young girls or young boys. It’s a safety issue. I support your being given a seperate facility someplace, somewhere – and inclusion in the segregation rights movement. Where you belong.

            I mean – we’re not safe if your kind are let near kids or have jobs as gym coaches. Jeez – look at all the porn you all write about that. And just google Joanne Linnencrappe to see the violence inherent in your kind.

            Roughly 250,000 kids were abused by Cis women last year. Just look atari the risk you represent to kids. I mean – I support your rights – just not around kids.

      • mzmartipants

        Thing is Grace, they complained not because she was naked, but because she was there. No one was naked anywhere.

        • NONONO

          Nobody is naked in the mens toilet but your words mzmartipants were : “trans women being assaulted in mens bathrooms. I know this BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME.
          I’ve not used a mens room since (and that was 2001). Sorry I’m not
          going to be sexually assaulted because you don’t feel comfortable.” Nakedness is not the issue. So basically Trans-feminism consists of Trans people (some with a penis) being allowed to say they won’t use a toilet with people with a penis being perfectly reasonable because of violence and rape BUT ciswomen insisting on not having a penis around when THEY are using the toilet because of violence and rape must be utterly hysterical!!!!! WELCOME to trans-feminism where Trans fear of penis violence is rational but womens’ fear of penis violence is hysterical!!! You.Could.Not.Make.That.Up.Could.You?

          • Grace

            @f1ad8667654d7b989653e2cc10d3448a:disqus @mzmartipants:disqus NONONO: You are very correct in your identification of mzmartipants blatant hypocrisy.

        • Grace

          Google “Colleen Francis” more to come if you really want. So many more eager sexual predators in dresses using the TG alibi to enter women’s locker rooms to masturbate in the stalls. They are waiting–look at their blogs! I know from personal experience, hearing said TG moaning while whacking off in the bathroom of my gym’s locker room for people w/ out a penis. Management couldn’t do anything to the TG flashing the ready made alibi “F” on their drivers license.

          • hermes daughter

            If the information that I have at my disposal about Colleen Francis is correct, and what is quoted below is all that I can find, Colleen may be many things but Colleen is NOT a transsexual woman and most certainly is NOT medically transitioning.

            “He started wearing a low-dose estrogen patch two years ago and has written that he has no intention of ever getting “sex reassignment” surgery, stating “Yes, I still have those parts too, although they aren’t disgusting for me. I’ve never hated then. I saw LONG ago, in childhood that those were what I was given, and beung the very, very sexual creature that I was/am, I used them. Enthusiastically. I decided not to be robbed of the blessing of sexuality simply because I came wrapped in the wrong package.” [sic]

            “He describes his VA funded estrogen treatments as making him “tired and very horny””.

            I am sorry, but wearing a low-dose estrogen patch two years ago with no intention of ever getting “sex reassignment” surgery does not constitute medically transitioning. It is hard to say for sure from the picture, but is seems likely that Colleen has not had any significant facial electrolysis. The statement about estrogen treatments making him “ …very horny” is very perplexing to me. If Colleen does indeed have a drivers license with a gender marker of F then the therapist that wrote the necessary letter should be reviewed and quite possibly have their license to practice revoked. Colleen should be given a more appropriate divers license to assure that this sort of thing never happens again. Of course if those statements are not true then Colleen needs to publicly challenge them. Unfortunately I suspect that these statements are true.

            People like Colleen do tremendous harm to people such as myself that are transsexual and are medically transitioning. Before I began to “legally transition” I spent years on relatively high doses of estrogen and importantly testosterone blockers. The combination caused noticeable and irreversible changes to my body, I developed breasts, I lost most of my upper body strength so that I am now no stronger than any other woman my size, the fat on my body redistributed itself and most importantly my mental state improved considerably. Also very important, the testosterone blockers put an end to any male sex drive that I had once had, this was very important as this had always been psychologically distressing to me. Equally important, I lost the ability to get erections, this was most welcome as this was one male function that had always been uncomfortable for me and some times even painful. I did not however loose my sex drive, I still enjoy very much gently touching and being gently touched by my partner, to me a very sexual activity. I also underwent hundreds of hours of very painful facial electrolysis. After starting a sequence of facial surgeries to make my face more feminine and starting to prepare for gender reassignment surgery my therapist told me that I was well past the “half way point” and that I should legally change my name and the gender marker on my drivers license. It is important to understand that medically transitioning one gender to another is a fairly long and involved process, the legal process of transitioning should reflect that. When someone has clearly passed the “half way point” and clearly has every intention of completing the process it is an appropriate time for a legal name change and changer of gender marker on ones drivers license. At this point it is appropriate to use the rest room that matches the gender marker on ones drivers license. It is appropriate to wait until after reassignment surgery to engage in public nudity, particularly in sexually segregated spaces. These remarks have obviously been made from the perspective of someone transitioning from male to female, similar, but in some obvious ways different statements would seem to apply to those transitioning from female to male.

            Transsexual women, such as myself,who are medically transitioning pose no treat to any woman, individuals such as Colleen would seem to pose a threat to all women.

    • So think about the logical conclusion of your argument. You gave a woman in all appearances with one little exception walking around naked with little boys. This makes sense to you? And you think this would be safe for me? Are you really so bug an idiot as to believe the BS your pushing here? I will have you know, most trans people don’t “walk around naked” anyway and neither do most vis women, so take your own advice and grow up.

    • mzmartipants

      except that didn’t happen in this case or ever.

      • Grace

        Why are we allowing people w/ a penis to decide for people w/out a penis what is and isn’t acceptable in spaces that are suppose to be safe for women w/ out a penis?

    • Ian Rennie

      How is this less innocent than grown people with penises changing in the same room as boys?


    Try replacing transgender with “black”, “jewish”, or “lesbian” and then tell me that it’s not transphobic

    NO NO NO!! that doesn’t work!!! Stop appropriating other minorities struggles that not in any way similar.

    Women and men have separate changing rooms. Women and Men ARE SEGREGATED and BOTH women and men WANT it that way!!!!!

    People with penis and people without penis ARE SEGREGATED!!!!!! Get it! Got it? Good!

    It is about naked human bodies being with SIMILAR naked human bodies.

    Try replacing someone who doesn’t have a penis with “someone who does”and then tell me that it’s not transphobic. No that’s not transphobic is it??? It didn’t need an interpretation to another minority struggle. It’s already plain what she means. AND 99.9% of peeople DISAGREE WITH YOU. If it needs re-interpreting to another’s struggle then you might want to wonder if you have any point to make??

    • So you’ve surveyed 100% of the human population and, miraculously, they all agree with you? Personally, I hate that men and women’s bathrooms are segregated and I can’t really think of a good reason they should be. We all have the save bodily functions to satisfy, so gender specific/segregated bathrooms don’t do much except make using the bathroom difficult for people who are gender variant. UNISEX BATHROOMS FOR ALL!

      And while no, this isn’t the oppression Olympics and no one is trying to appropriate anyone else’s struggle. However, if you’re uncomfortable being around a person for a sole physical characteristic, sexuality or any other miniority status, it’s bigotry pure and simple.

      • Smarter Than you

        you’re basically an idiot

        • mzmartipants

          You’re basically deleted.

    • How are they dissimilar?

      • NONONO

        when it’s a joke to say “hey Trans make me a sandwich” (which it isn’t and never will be) you’ll understand. There is no master/servant relationship with trans/cis like there is with class/race/females. You are not required or expected as a trans to SERVE anyone. It’s not the same as other minority struggles at all. Live in a fantasy Utopia all you like where people with a penis can walk around naked with young naked girls, but the rest of us live in the real world where people with a penis are a killing Trans, women, raping children and other shit. JOIN THE MENS RIGHTS MOVEMENT if you want to stop segregation of mens and womens spaces because women WANT segregation. You’re not fighting for women. I’ll say it again. Women WANT segregation. You’re fighting for men and against women. It’s not even about Trans. Nobody cares if feel a like a man or woman. Literally nobody cares. Maybe some bloke somehwere. It’s men that kill Trans. Not women. If you think fighting for de-segregation of womens spaces is fighting transmisogyny – you’re deluded. You are on the side of mens rights activists pure and simple.

        • ” You are not required or expected as a trans to SERVE anyone” – No, we’re just considered second class humans at best… I was going to write “citizens” instead of “humans”, but many of us can’t even vote because our ID doesn’t match our appearance.

          “It’s men that kill Trans. Not women.” – You’d better have some evidence for that astounding statement. Physical violence isn’t the only thing that kills, and 80% of trans people at least contemplate suicide at some point in their lives. Bullying is murder.

          • NONONO

            And your point is? To agree that the Trans/cis IS different than race/class/sex? That you are not required solely because you are trans to make a cis a sandwich and serve them. Thanks, I believe cis people have been trying to explain this to trans for a while. Bullying is murder. Just stop it. Just stop. Being trans has nothing to do with women not wanting you in a toilet it’s people who have a penis. Deny rape culture all you like and join the MRA because rape culture exists.

    • Comparing our minority that faces bigotry doesn’t compare to other groups that face bigotry? I’m so sorry that that’s too big a leap for your tiny brain to connect. The only reason comparisons are necessary at all is because jerks like you can’t figure out how wrong your position is without it. Believe me, such comparisons aren’t necessary for us.

      So, NO NO NO, don’t post your idiocy here.

    • Since I’m the one who made that comparison in reply to Roseanne on Twitter, I stand by it.

      Do you really want guards outside every public toilet, every changing room, to stare into your panties to make sure you have female genitalia, then require you to provide proof of your sexual orientation before you can go in there? Because that’s the logical result of your uninformed rantings.

      And they *are* uninformed. Trans women, pre or post-op, *are* women. Some are straight, some are lesbians, some are bi. All are women, and until people like you understand that gender has nothing to do with what may or may not be between your legs, they are the ones being victimised, not you.

      Incidentally, I know at least one genetic male born without a penis. Would you deny him access to the Gents’ because of that?

  • Kimberly Burgess

    Damn, I used to have respect for this woman and was glad she was challenging the powers that be by running. Seeing that she’s just another pathetic bigot is painful. 🙁 She’s as ignorant as my family.