Remembering Coretta Scott King’s Words…
January 16, 2007
Congrats Autumn!
January 18, 2007

“You kind of like me, don’t you, Chuck?”

Charles revisited the transgender/feminism debate, this time centering on the “Language Around Trans, How it Works, How it Doesn’t….

Little Light said:

“Honestly, I don’t feel comfortable getting involved in this discussion until the trans people in it actually have our words honored. In the previous thread, most of the trans folk involved dropped out quietly in frustration, and part of the reason is that our arguments and statements were not actually being engaged with. “

I agree with Little Light. I’ve seen enough useless anger and devision to last me 300 lifetimes. I’ve experienced more than my share of “Is it true that you have the most womanly prostrate ever? How does it feel to know you will always be a mutilated man?” on my personal blog. I’ve experienced this and this in my real life. When an online discussion/debate spirals into a shouting match, I’ll quietly remove myself and move on. I’m not a delicate flower, for sure. My decision to leave has little to do with my ability to debate or accept criticism. I’ll debate in some really hostile environments if I think it’s going to educate or illuminate; but I have a really short fuse for hate with my online life. I’m here to learn and to educate. I’m here to dialogue. I’m here to share. I’m here to explore. But I am not here to have someone to tell me who and what I am. So staying or going is a matter of respect and decorum.

I believe that internet/blog discussions can and are, at times, productive. I like challenging the reasoning of my own thoughts and actions. I know other people have benefited from the conversations as well. I’ve also benefited from the gift of being introduced to some really wonderful people. If you want to debate and, or discuss, I’m available. But if you simply want to tell me what a messed up person I am, don’t expect me to hang around and listen. My mom does it better than you anyway….

  • NancyP

    I have no agenda, other than correctly naming the second most misspelled organ in the human body: Prostate (NOT “prostrate”, which is the name of the condition the organ owner is in after 12 needle core biopsies for suspected cancer).

    The most misspelled organ is Larynx (NOT “larnyx”). Third (only because people don’t mention it much) is Pharynx (NOT “pharnyx”). And even I have only about a 50% chance of getting the word Epididymus (NOT “epidydimus” correct the first time without checking – but then again, hardly anyone other than an anatomist or pathologist or urologist knows of its existence (it is the “funnel” leading from the testis to the vas, for those who don’t know).

    The incidence of the organ misspellings has been determined from handwritten operative notes from nurses and others.

  • NancyP

    I have no agenda, other than correctly naming the second most misspelled organ in the human body: Prostate (NOT “prostrate”, which is the name of the condition the organ owner is in after 12 needle core biopsies for suspected cancer).

    The most misspelled organ is Larynx (NOT “larnyx”). Third (only because people don’t mention it much) is Pharynx (NOT “pharnyx”). And even I have only about a 50% chance of getting the word Epididymus (NOT “epidydimus” correct the first time without checking – but then again, hardly anyone other than an anatomist or pathologist or urologist knows of its existence (it is the “funnel” leading from the testis to the vas, for those who don’t know).

    The incidence of the organ misspellings has been determined from handwritten operative notes from nurses and others.

  • Those mp3s made me really sad. I’m sorry that you went through that. *hugs*

    (Me = friend of Danni, btw)

  • Those mp3s made me really sad. I’m sorry that you went through that. *hugs*

    (Me = friend of Danni, btw)

  • StacyM

    I too believe that blog discussions can—under certain circumstances—be productive.

    I don’t think there’s a lot of hope in getting those who bear strong ideological/affective distaste toward transpeople to shift in their ideas and perceptions. Nevertheless, I do see the possibility of having an effect on those whose ideas have not yet solidified on the matter. I also see this as part of a process of ideological ferment that evolves over generations. Tomorrow’s generations will see feminism and transgender people in a very different light. We are a part of that process.

    At times, it also serves as a sometimes-painful means of processing through my own ideas and emotions. The first thread at Alas helped me put words to ideas and feelings that I haven’t really discusses aloud before. It turned out to be a useful way of organizing my thoughts on these matters.

    When the discussion starts to go in circles, however, I no longer feel the need to participate. That’s what I saw happening at Alas and I decided to disengage from the thread. Plus, some of the folks who were critical of transpeople in those threads (one person in particular) took an “I’ll see it when I believe it” approach to transpeople’s posts regarding their life experiences and how those experiences inform their ideas. That’s flat out disrespectful.

    Gah.

    I’m still lurking at Alas, but I doubt I’ll rejoin the discussion. Thanks for hanging in there and continuing to comment at Alas. You have a greater tolerance for this stuff than I.

    It’s interesting to note that a form of self-segregation is starting to take place in the feminist blog world. As more and more blog wars ensue (conflicts over oral sex, prostitution, porn, trans issues, makeup, etc.), more and more de-linking is occurring. Essentially, the virtual equivalent of walls is being built between different factions of feminism. This no doubt reflects what happens in real time. In some ways, in saddens me. In some ways, I just shrug and say, “that’s human beings just being human beings.”

    By the way, the title to your post, “You kind of like me, don’t you Chuck?” made me laugh. Peppermint Patty is one of my favorite characters from Peanuts. She rocks. 🙂

  • StacyM

    I too believe that blog discussions can—under certain circumstances—be productive.

    I don’t think there’s a lot of hope in getting those who bear strong ideological/affective distaste toward transpeople to shift in their ideas and perceptions. Nevertheless, I do see the possibility of having an effect on those whose ideas have not yet solidified on the matter. I also see this as part of a process of ideological ferment that evolves over generations. Tomorrow’s generations will see feminism and transgender people in a very different light. We are a part of that process.

    At times, it also serves as a sometimes-painful means of processing through my own ideas and emotions. The first thread at Alas helped me put words to ideas and feelings that I haven’t really discusses aloud before. It turned out to be a useful way of organizing my thoughts on these matters.

    When the discussion starts to go in circles, however, I no longer feel the need to participate. That’s what I saw happening at Alas and I decided to disengage from the thread. Plus, some of the folks who were critical of transpeople in those threads (one person in particular) took an “I’ll see it when I believe it” approach to transpeople’s posts regarding their life experiences and how those experiences inform their ideas. That’s flat out disrespectful.

    Gah.

    I’m still lurking at Alas, but I doubt I’ll rejoin the discussion. Thanks for hanging in there and continuing to comment at Alas. You have a greater tolerance for this stuff than I.

    It’s interesting to note that a form of self-segregation is starting to take place in the feminist blog world. As more and more blog wars ensue (conflicts over oral sex, prostitution, porn, trans issues, makeup, etc.), more and more de-linking is occurring. Essentially, the virtual equivalent of walls is being built between different factions of feminism. This no doubt reflects what happens in real time. In some ways, in saddens me. In some ways, I just shrug and say, “that’s human beings just being human beings.”

    By the way, the title to your post, “You kind of like me, don’t you Chuck?” made me laugh. Peppermint Patty is one of my favorite characters from Peanuts. She rocks. 🙂