One of the many rumors flying around the transgender blogosphere is that the next Human Rights Campaign (HRC) golden (or token, if you like) transgender person is Susan Stanton. If true, it’s an sign of just how desperate the HRC is to “Win Back” the transgender community.
One of the most obvious reasons that she should not represent the transgender community is experience. This time last year, Susan was still Steve. Susan was still closeted. She transitioned from Steve to Susan in May of last year. The words “newbie” and “neophyte” ring loudly through my ears when the name Susan Stanton is spoken. A recent story in the St. Petersburg Times shows just how unprepared Stanton is to lead this community.
Susan has met hundreds of other people like her. She was among the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people lobbying for a law that would make it illegal for others to discriminate against them.But Susan has said all along that she’s not like other transgender people. She feels uncomfortable even looking at some, ‘like I’m seeing a bunch of men in dresses.’
On the face of it, that is one of the most transphobic statements I’ve ever heard spewed from the the mouth of another transgender woman. It’s saying, ‘I’m not like THOSE people, those MEN IN DRESSES!’
Eventually, she decided it was too early for transgender people to be federally protected. People need more time, more education, she says. “The transgender groups boo me, now, when I speak. Isn’t that ironic?“But I don’t blame the human rights groups from separating the transgender people from the protected groups. Most Americans aren’t ready for us yet,” Susan says. Transgender people need to be able to prove they’re still viable workers — especially in the mainstream.
Gosh, how would Susan know the pulse of American’s feelings on transgender people? The numbers from HRC’s own polls done in 2002 and 2004 suggest something much different than her conclusions. Her words sound hauntingly familiar to Barney Frank’s verbal assaults against gender identity inclusion in the Employment Non Discrimination Act (ENDA).
Stanton wonders why she’s getting booed? HRC is clearly not speaking for the “good” of the transgender community. They have been actively working against transgender inclusive legislation. They are hardly the people to be judging nor picking who should or shouldn’t speak on our behalf. The booing isn’t ironic, but inevitable when you are a shill for an organization that threw us under the ENDA bus.
The less obvious reason is that her life experience as a transperson is of one of privilege. She has little concept of the struggles of most trangender women.
‘I’m still getting used to so many things about my new body,’ Susan says. “It’s intoxicatingly enjoyable and absolutely right.” She loves the feel of soft sweaters on her hairless arms, the new curves of her hips, her smooth cheeks and chin. And there’s still one leap to make.In May, Susan flies to Arizona for the $15,000 gender-reassignment surgery.
The majority of trangender women who want surgery, can’t have it. The cost is just too much, most of us are barely getting by. Most transgender women who are unable to find work because of their transition don’t have to means to have an apartment and support a family in another house, while unemployed. I don’t know any women that can have electrolysis done while not working (do the math $70 to $150 a treatment X 52 weeks X 2 to 3 years) . For most of us, life is a constant struggle to survive. We can’t jet off to another state and have surgery on the first anniversary of our real life test. Stanton is obviously a person of means, even in her unemployment. Such is not the state for the majority of the transgender community.
But the biggest reason of all, is the kind of rhetoric that she is spouting is dangerous to our movement. Her comments are nothing short of misogynistic, homophobic, and transphobic.
Six months ago, I would have said, ‘No. Never. I’m not gay.’ Now it feels nice, natural, when a man buys me a drink,” Susan says. “It’s nice to have someone order dinner for you, choose the wine.
Inherent in her message is that women are submissive, men are dominant. Note to Susan: this outdated rhetoric went out in the 1970’s. Maybe she hasn’t heard that “women are doing it for themselves.”
Six months ago, I would have said, ‘No. Never. I’m not gay.’ Now it feels nice, natural, when a man buys me a drink.
Note to all gay men: If you take hormones and wear a dress, you’ll be heterosexual.
“I was a good city manager. I know I was. I had high expectations and held people responsible for achieving results,” Susan says. “I could’ve made it work. I’m not some drag queen in a pink miniskirt with 6-inch heels. And I’m not Aunt Bee.
The divisive and patriarchal attitude Stanton is spewing will throw us back years. Instead of being the leader of the transgender community, she sounds like a better fit for the transsexual separatist movement.
Many of us are trying to find work, even if we don’t pass so well. Many of us are a secure in our own sexuality. Many of us do not spew self hating homophobic and transphobic statements. Some of us do sex work because we can’t find any other work. Some of us live in the streets because our families have abandoned us. Some of us look like Aunt Bee.
If she don’t understand us, and in fact has contempt for us, she probably shouldn’t speak for us. She isn’t helping us.
I’m not like Susan Stanton, and I hope some day she isn’t either.
44 Comments, Comment or Ping
Ethan St.Pierre
Good work Marti!
Susan doesn’t seem to think employment protections for transgender people is an urgent issue and even worse, she seems to have been educated by the people who are working against including us in Federal legislation.
It really burns my ass that the people who have actively fought against our community think they
have the right to choose who speaks on our behalf.
It would be like transgender people believing we have the right to choose Larry Craig to speak on behalf of the gay and lesbian community!
Doesn’t sound American to me.
Jan 2nd, 2008
Kat
Thoughts of the Kat on the S.S(tanton). HRC:
http://endablog.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/and-a-sickening-new-year/
…and I bet some of you thougbt that what HRC did on ENDA itself was as low as HRC could go.
Jan 2nd, 2008
Kelli Busey
I wish I could feel sorry for stanton. She has completly missed out on the joy of transition. The happyness I have found in the love and friendships that have appeared where before there was emptyness and dispair.
But for Stanton there is no journey. Only a set of physical objectives.
For Stanton there is no community. Only the distant sound of discontent.
I wish I could forgive Stanton for making my brothers and sisters angry. She has placed this in peace loving hard working peopls souls.
Susan if you read this, go back. Go back to the first time someone pushed you on a swing. Relive the joy and focus on that when these mean thoughts try to invade you soul. Little by little you may start to relate to your brothers and sisters. You will start to admire there courage and humor and hope. You will begin to emerge from your smallness and enter OUR community.
Jan 2nd, 2008
Zoe Brain
I see far too much of myself in her to condemn overmuch. Hopefully I’m growing out of it.
I believe she’s totally right when she says more education needs to be done. We thought HRC was doing it. We were misled. So we have to do it ourselves, because they certainly won’t.
I believe she’s totally wrong when she says that “now is not the right time”, because by that mark, there is never a “right time”.
Dr M.L.King
What Ms Stanton is doing is “toeing the HRC party line”. Perhaps that’s all she’s been exposed to, it’s certainly been one heck of a fast track for her. Given the fact that she’s only had 4 interviews for 100 applications, and is jobless after a year, any hints of an offer by the HRC to be their Token Tranny must look really good. I’d take it in her shoes, telling myself that my own experience as a professional manager might make a real difference. Who knows, I might not be completely fooling myself.
I don’t condemn girls who are forced into prostitution because of their financial circumstances, even though I’m a prude, prim, a neo-con, “passing well” and all the rest. I can’t condemn them, no-one with an ounce of humanity could. Not even if they are former city managers.
I call for that humanity, that tolerance (through gritted teeth), that willingness to see just how hard it must have been, that allowance for ignorance and the exposure to poisonous council by the malicious, to be extended to her.
Maybe it’s easy for me to say that, being in a privileged position. Or maybe it’s the fact that I’m her age, and that my own transition was even faster than hers, that I’ve learnt a lot yet am still so ignorant, I can’t help but see things from her viewpoint.
I hope she doesn’t become a T version of Barney Frank, only willing to work for straight-looking T’s. Even more, I hope I don’t become that either.
Jan 2nd, 2008
Vickie Davis
How can she say such things? Has she been so oppressed that these those that don’t understand us that she now beleaves like they do. It is the like the Stockholm Syndrome.
Jan 2nd, 2008
Vickie Davis
It looks like I tried to get too fancy for my oun good. The last line “God help us if she becomes the HRC”s golden tranny,” was suppose to be outside the quote. Oh well, I hope you get the idea.
Marti: if you could fix it I would be appreciative. Vickie
Jan 2nd, 2008
Susan
In understatement, Stanton’s remarks were most rude and uncalled for. There appears to be no excuse for such hurtful remarks.
However, perhaps “the most obvious reason she shouldn’t represent the transgender community” is that she doesn’t feel she is, nor identifies with, the transgendered?
Jan 3rd, 2008
Val
> However, perhaps “the most obvious reason she shouldn’t represent the transgender community” is that she doesn’t feel she is, nor identifies with, the transgendered?
This occurred to me as well. Her references to “men in dresses”, proud normativity and apparent sense of entitlement remind me of your own positions.
Which begs the question: how do you feel about her representing your interests?
Jan 3rd, 2008
Ethan St.Pierre
“believe she’s totally right when she says more education needs to be done. We thought HRC was doing it. We were misled. So we have to do it ourselves, because they certainly won’t.”
Just because the excuse that Congress used was that they need more education, doesn’t mean it’s true. Did HRC educate Congress on transgender issues? NO.
But we didn’t sit idly by and trust that HRC was actually doing education work on our behalf.
We have been through this before. In fact we went through the exact same thing in 2003. Elizabeth Birch used the same “There needs to be more education” excuse back then for not including us in ENDA. You can read about that right here: http://www.genderadvocates.org/News/HRC%20on%20ENDA.html
Susan is doing nothing more than singing the tune of our oppressors. She has a star in each eye and doesn’t care who she hurts or how much damage she does.
Jan 3rd, 2008
eastsidekate
Excellent analogy. Susan’s not in the closet, but she’s just coming out of it– and working through a bunch of issues. As others have pointed out, not only does she have a narrow, self-loathing and privileged perspective, but she’s also not been put forth as a spokesperson by any trans people I can think of.
Jan 3rd, 2008
Janice
To all of my Sisters.
My name is Janice Covington Allison, Chair of TransCarolina (http://www.transcarolina.org/) . Our membership is well over 1,000 Transgender people in the Southeast.
HRC is a deceitful organization. I was one of the ones that got sucked in by their lies. I campaigned for them. I handed out their propaganda, and believed in them as if they were our saviors. I spoke on stage during my shows in cities such as Greensboro N.C. and Florence S.C. to help them gather up their war chest to fight Congress for ENDA. I spoke at the University of South Carolina of how they were fighting for the entire GBLT community.
Boy was I ever misled by them. I feel betrayed. I was made into a liar and a fool.
I and TransCarolina supported HRC. We attended the HRC Gala in Charlotte back in February of last year. They made over us like we were welcomed. They made us feel special.
I see now it was like leading us to the slaughter house. They did not even waste a bullet on us. They used a 4 LB hammer to kill us like cattle. There own spokes person Susan Stanton the ex city manager from Largo Florida just the other day called us Transgenders men in dresses and Drag Queens wearing pink mini skirts and 6 inch high heels. Susan Stanton view is we embarrass her she can’t look at us without disgust. Read for yourself here is the link. http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/31/Life/Susan_Stanton_s_lonel.shtml
I understand that Susan Stanton has been chosen by Rep Barney Frank to speak to a congressional panel about transgender issues. I do not approve of this Along with many other transgender activists. She has no experience at all in who we are and what we are about and our needs. it is a shame that some are being mislead with Susan Stanton’s help. I for one will not stand for this. I will at the right time write a letter to the Washington Post while the hearings are going on in Washington.
Susan’s agenda is like most people to survive who can blame her? She is a smart person and knew she would have difficulty in finding employment making the same type of money she did as a city manager. Her only recourse was speaking engagements and TV interviews. This includes lying in bed with the enemy so to speak HRC and Congressman Barney Frank. I guess in the transgender world she could be renamed Melita Norwood I think that would fit her nicely. She didn’t know but she knew. She will realize someday the pain she caused. Or will she?
I have people in my organization that depended on ENDA to pass AS I am sure there is here is this group also. I have members and Friends that are desperate to find work. I have seen suicides and homeless Transgenders; some in my own organization. Some of them attended the Southern Comfort Conference in Atlanta and heard first-hand Joe, the HRC Board Chair, lie to us. This person, and their board of directors, should be fired by their membership. They hurt us in ways that can never be repaired.
I know what some here are thinking why don’t I contact Susan Stanton? Well I tried to back in October to talk with her about a upcoming Radio show that her and I were to do. She never got back to me. I guess I got shaded.
HRC can never be trusted by the transgender community again. The way to hurt them is by removing the money that’s their life-blood. [Removing the money kills the snake]. They still say they are trans inclusive - BUT they are liars. Some of you remember me when I lived in San Francisco also when I lived in Chicago. I was the Former Miss Chicago Night Life 1969. Please Google ENDA - Look and see for yourself! What they did to us. all of us.
HRC still has some of our young people working with them. They have brain-washed them into believing they’ve done all they could for us and that the future is still ours. I know that the gay and lesbian community will be hurt also. In the ENDA bill it reads that it will protect gays and lesbians.
By not including the Transgenders it will hurt gay men that act fem Also it will hurt lesbians that are masculine. They will fall into the Trans spectrum. It will make no difference if you Dress as a girl full time or partime a Drag Queen or a gay man that is fem or a lesbian that is butch. Employers can still discriminate against you for being transgendered. Think about it.
Many of the Gays and the Lesbians of HRC are not very happy campers, when they consider what they did to we who comprise the Transgender community. Some that I have talked to have also withdrawn their membership to HRC in support of us. In my opinion, I think that the LGB community will deal with them by throwing Joe and his Gang out the door.
I, for one, will never be fooled by them again!
I hope you are able to see and seriously consider my email. It is very important to us to expose HRC for what it really is. I know that many of you do shows to rase money for Pink Ribbon and Health Project. This is a good thing. I know that some have been to HRC events in support of them. Don’t just take my word Google ENDA and HRC and see for yourself.
Thank you.
Janice Allison
Charlotte NC http://www.transcarolina.org
Jan 3rd, 2008
Kat
Thank you Janice for your candor - and your comments.
Jan 3rd, 2008
Janice
you are very welcome Kat
Jan 3rd, 2008
Zoe Brain
I’ve never identified with the TG community. I’m IS, TS, but have little in common with GLBs and most TGs. I never dressed before transition, and there are no TG support groups where I live.
But so what? Those who would beat the living daylights out of me make no such fine distinctions. And of course I’m pro-GLB and pro-TG rights, it’s a Human Rights issue, and those minorities are being persecuted.
I have no say in whether I’m lumped in with them or not. By fighting for my own rights, I help them, and when they fight for their rights, it helps me. My own identification is irrelevant.
Jan 3rd, 2008
Janice
Janice
I can agree with you all that Susan is new and needs time to grow as a transgender to understand the needs of us and her both. But being that she is in the public eye she must be careful with her comments. Like the following statements from her.
* * *
Susan says
Susan has met hundreds of other people like her. She was among the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people lobbying for a law that would make it illegal for others to discriminate against them.
But Susan has said all along that she’s not like other transgender people. She feels uncomfortable even looking at some, “like I’m seeing a bunch of men in dresses.”
———————————————————————————————————————————————————–
It does not take a pretty face, but it does take care in yourself and confidence in your presentation. I am not passable like some. I wish I were LOL. But we are who we are. If you are going to be in the lime light and speak for us like Susan you should have care for the feelings of those you project towards. All that know me know I love everyone regardless. Both Drag Queens and T-Girls are my Sisters even the ones that don’t like me, till the end.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Susan Says
Eventually, she decided it was too early for transgender people to be federally protected. People need more time, more education, she says. “The transgender groups boo me, now, when I speak. Isn’t that ironic?
———————————————————————————————————————————————————
Susan said above that it is too early for us to be federally protected. I have been fighting my whole life. How long does it take? I had to wear a dam button that said I was a man back in 1969. I have been taken to jail because I dressed like a girl when going out to the club and the police would raid the clubs and take everybody downtown to run warrents and records checks. I had to sell myself to be able to afford to eat. I had to sleep on a bench or in a hotel lobby for I had no place to live. I couldn’t find a job. NO one wanted to hire me. I had nobody, no place, at the age of 22. Which was 38 years ago. I paid the price Susan hasn’t. Susan has only been out 1 year she does not have the RIGHT to say it is too early for US. Maybe for her it is but not for me, nor my friends that died along the way living their lives, surviving as best as they could. Sorry this has started me crying. I Boo her for this over and over. She has no right to judge us only GOD does.
____________________________________________________________________
Susan Says
“But I don’t blame the human rights groups from separating the transgender people from the protected groups. Most Americans aren’t ready for us yet,” Susan says. Transgender people need to be able to prove they’re still viable workers — especially in the mainstream.
“The biggest issue against the federal legislation is that politicians think the ladies’ rooms will be invaded by guys in drag,” Susan says, “instead of someone like me.”
First, she needs a job. She has applied for more than 100 positions in city management, but has interviewed in only four cities — Sarasota, Naples, Tempe, Ariz., and Berkeley, Calif.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Susan made a statement above that we need to prove ourselves, Do you agree with her statement? I am sure you all are well qualified in your chosen Carrier. This statement was not fair to the transgender people. This sounds very much like she was coached by Barney Frank.
Susan says that the ladies room will be invaded by guys in drag instead of someone like her. WOW that hits below the belt like my Drag Sisters are inferior to her. Susan needs to think first of what she wants to say before she speaks to the press. She should sit back and think why she is being ostracized.
Lastly her last paragraph. She has applied 100 times for a job in four cities. She wonders why she can’t get work. She speaks of how qualified she is. Well, she needs to look at her own statements above and see how and what she says effects her chances.
____________________________________________________________________
Are you aware that Barney Frank has asked Susan Stanton to speak in front of a Congressional Committee on our behalf? To give them the information they need to help determine if we have rights like all other Americans to work without Discrimination. In my opinion, Susan is not qualified to give that speech to a Congressional Committee. She will most likely put us back in the Dark Ages. There are many more qualified Activist that would fit that need better. Susan is all about the center of attention and not US.
I have nothing against her personally. Some of you said she needs to learn because she is new. But please, not at mine or others expense. She along with HRC is tearing all our work from the last 30 years apart. Our wonderful HRC has for the last 20 years shown they do NOT want us. The proof is in their actions not just from me. Along with Susan Stanton’s comments we as a Society will never see Equality in anything.
I do respect all of your opinions. We as human beings are given the gift from GOD to think for ourselves and formulate our own reasons for being. I have been there all my life. I can see the path that Susan’s ignorance, and inexperience is taking us down.
We are Doomed. I hate to say this, but we are. I see a lot of fighting on line and in the blogs. I feel like that the most it gives us the satisfaction of comment. But No end result can come from making a Internet post. I know of some, that want to have educational events. Some want to contact Susan and educate her. I think that is good but we are running out of time. What do we do? Susan Stanton with her Ignorance and inexperience is killing our chances to progress. We are spending a lot of time trying to stop her before she does more harm. Our energy could be spent building bridges showing the world we are people by using educational methods.
Congressman Barney Frank HRC’S hero is winning. I can’t stop them can you? We need to do something and fast. I have been told we have 360 Transgender Avocate groups. WOW. Now what. It would take time to organize into one to be able to be effective in our quest. How Long? Do you know? I do, it would take years and lots of money to be a viable force. In the mean time we are loosing ground. General George Patton once said he won’t pay for the same Real Estate twice. We should follow what he said. But how? Tell me please.
Hugs&Love
Janice Coviington Allison. Chair of TransCarolina. http://www.transcarolina.org
Jan 4th, 2008
Leigh
The divisive and patriarchal attitude Stanton is spewing will throw us back years. Instead of being the leader of the transgender community, she sounds like a better fit for the transsexual separatist movement.
Sorry .. we don’t want your rejects… Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahah
Jan 4th, 2008
Val
“Don’t want”?
What does that have to do with anything? Or do you now claim the same ability as Michael Bailey, to correctly diagnose transsexual and transgender conditions at a distance?
This is what I mean by “political identity.” The fact is that Stanton’s utterances reflect a fair portion of separatist sentiment… the same kinds of sentiment by which HBS-identified individuals seem to claim to be able to recognize one another. Do you then “reject” her because she put it a bad way, in an inappropriate forum? Is that all “identity” means?
HBS, if it is a medical condition, is not then also a private clubhouse to which you have the right of admission and rejection.
Jan 5th, 2008
Susan
I have never stated that transgendered people are “men in dresses” but, then again, you know that. Certainly I don’t want to be perceived as a freak so, yes, I am proudly normative. Considering I worked my way through engineering school and what little I may have acquired over the 57 years of my life was because of diligent effort and dogged perseverance, a sense of entitlement just doesn’t fit. And, I represent my own interests…take responsibility for my own life…and don’t look for excuses in others when things don’t go my way.
But you don’t care about any of that, Val, do you?
You are a malcontent, extremely contentious, love to argue just to argue, seemingly unhappy and, at least with every blog interaction you and I have had, apparently a very humorless and sour individual.
I know you don’t appreciate my position in this debate; I think everyone knows that by now. And, as that premise is firmly established, I have a suggestion: Why don’t you try to present a perspective, unique or otherwise, in the debate instead of cluttering Marti’s excellent site with verbal baiting and pointed personal attacks.
Jan 5th, 2008
Val
> I have never stated that transgendered people are “men in dresses”
You have implied on numerous occasions that anyone who considers themselves transgendered, and does not present to you whatever you consider to be adequate evidence of being a “true transsexual” (what you now call an HBS woman), is essentially a crossdresser or similar variant. You make no real allowance for variety or evolution of consciousness, awareness, affect, or language. The fact that you choose now to be a concern troll, and feign reproach for my own sullying of this blog, is a smokescreen for what has always been an evidently fundamentalist position.
The rest is the usual cred-grabbing and tit-for-tat henpecking, and can therefore be discarded without comment.
Jan 5th, 2008
Stellewriter
I have said it once, twice, and dozens of times; we are our own enemies and worse we devour ourselves. I suppose it is reasonable to assume that the group with the highest rate of suicide (Some place attempts at 90% for transsexuals)would also see mass suicide as a viable means too. I mean it in terms of, “If I am going down, then take’em all with me” logic.
The Transger commnity at every turn shows divisive and conflicted behavior - That goes with the gender conflict I guess. So why shouldn’t HRC and everyone think less of us. We do it to ourselves.
We, the Transgender commnity, need to form a voice is separate from others, one that is a consolidation of the many transgender factions. On face and voice for the public to be educated by, and to know as something with consistant force and power and not one delegated to others, especially not to a group (HRC)who has shown no real interst in us.
Next week maybe?
Jan 5th, 2008
Leigh
Actually val … my comment was made with both irony and humor in mind.
I mean .. When she was lobbying for laws for the Transgenders and the GLB she was your golden girl, someone who could make a difference.
Then it turns out that even she cant get into the idea of “Men in Dresses”, says it publically and is immediatly demonized as being a better fit for those awful elitist and despicable transsexual seperatists, which in itself is a strange term since we are not seperating from you because we never identified with you in the first place.
The club, as you put it, doesn’t have a right of admission or rejection, you either is or you isn’t HBS/transsexual. We don’t have spectrums, nor do we have support groups. We don’t march on Washington nor celebrate our pride. We don’t want to change society, just be one with it. We don’t have hero’s or heroines and we don’t idolize the next public figure to hit the media spotlight. In fact, we could happily go through life not knowing who each other are, somthing that transgenders could never do since their entire existance revolves around their need for support and community. If it dwindles, they run back to the cover of the GLB or their former lives.
So no, we don’t want or need your rejects but if they one day open their eyes and find that they identify more with us than you, there is always a place waiting for them at our table.
Jan 5th, 2008
Kimberli Jackson
I feel bad about these types of comments. While I can try to read between the lines and put some sort of good spin on what I THINK Susan might have been trying to say I am not at all sure that even then it makes much sense to slander a group of people the way she did.
This whole thing honestly brings up such mixed emotions in my mind. I do feel, however, that there does need to be more education about transpeople in general but truthfully I am one of maybe a minority that it needs to begin with us. I am a transwoman long ago transitioned and long ago surgicaly corrected and I have to admit that I too get very confused about our issues. I have very long conversations with other transwomen and transmen about these things and often times come out even more confused about us, what we are, who we are, who is and who isn’t trans. It is very confusing and I am in the midst of it. I do not self identify as trans except when engaged in trans related activities but I do recognize that being trans was my way pathway to becoming a female.
I only have one question of Susan and that is does she really think she was fired from her job for any other reason besides that the people who employed her saw her as nothing more than a man in a dress? I am sure being fired because of that was hurtful to her but now she uses that same terminology as a hurtful club against others….Tisk, tisk, tisk on Susan
Jan 6th, 2008
Ethan St.Pierre
If you don’t want to know nor care who each other are, how will Susan know which table to sit at. Will it be clearly marked, THE STEALTH table?
That reminds me of the joke about paranoids anonymous. They wouldn’t tell you where the meeting is.
Jan 6th, 2008
Val
I have often noticed the habit of fundamentalists to reiterate ever-more-generic manifestos, the self-evident mendacity of which they appear to hope will be ignored in the face of their glazed rhetoric.
Jan 6th, 2008
Stellewriter
Back in the fray…
I actually hope Susan finds a professional position with great authority, cash and power to lord over others, showing them what a real transitioned person should be like.
Since I was releived from my six figure professional career for transitioning on the job, I have yet to figure out how to sell my new self. How do I claim my past, and all thet I had done? When I transitioned my peer commnity pretty much ruined my career. And now even those who do accept me are afraid to risk their position to help me. It hurts!
Anyway, if Susan gets a great job and can pilot the ship, I will sign on as a deck hand. I mean, she could hire me right? She could show all of us how easy it is to overcome the issues we face. I am sure she has a plan! She does have a plan, doesn’t she? DOESN’T SHE????
Jan 6th, 2008
Leigh
When you make a group of non-related or ill fitting comparisons and lump it all under a single term, there is going to be discourse and divisivness. Such is the human condition reflected in all parts of society, everywhere. Whites don’t want to live in Black neighborhoods, Black’s dont want to live in spanish neighborhoods, the asians only hire other asians, the germans kill the jews and the jews kill the arabs and the arabs kill the hostages and that is the news.. is it any wonder the monkey’s confused?
Transgender, by its very term encompasses so many ill fitting bed partners that there is no way we will ever live in harmony or see eye to eye on just about anything. What does a transsexual have in common with a crossdresser other than they both wear clothes that were originally designed for the other gender. One wears them because they have become the other gender, the other wears them to satisfy a fetish. What do Gays and lesbians have in common with non-gay transsexuals or crossdressers? The crossdressers are not gay and are mostly married men, the gays don’t have a stockings and high heel fetish and the lesbians don’t even own but one pair of each at most.
But then we strike at the very heart of what the GLB & T marriage was always about. It is to show to society that gays and lesbians are NORMAL in comparisson to the fruits and flakes encompassing the T part of the federation. The transgenders are the pawns in a wider game of chess and you all swallowed it down and ate it up, just as they wanted you to. Your nothing more than cannon fodder on the battlefield of gay rights, and once they have what they came for, you will be standing outside looking through the window while they ignore your very existance.
Jan 6th, 2008
Stellewriter
Think 1931 Berlin, cabaret raided and those who are effeminate and trans dragged into the streets to be beaten and stabbed….
I see its repeat coming upon us…..
Think Sturmabteilung when you think HRC….
Jan 6th, 2008
Charles Oram
Came across this randomly on facebook - really agree with you and am in awe of how articulate you are!
Jan 6th, 2008
Susan
We, the Transgender commnity, need to form a voice (that) is separate from others…
That’s pretty much heresy to even suggest. I will come to your tar and feathering.
Jan 6th, 2008
Mercedes Allen
We’re looking at some pretty wide generalizations here. One thing I have done was to build bridges with crossdressing communities, and in doing so, I’ve found that peoples’ reasons for crossdressing are as diverse as their faces. And there are definitely some future transitioning folks in their number, and others who need to but hold back.
More importantly, you do not have to fully understand a community to respect it. For a community that needs the respect of at least the moderates in a largely cisgendered world that can’t understand us, it’s worth noting that, and practicing it ourselves.
Jan 6th, 2008
Vickie Davis
Kimberli,
It is fun to see you here too!
Your friend and neighbor,
Vickie
Jan 7th, 2008
Stellewriter
Side note to Charles:
The abilities and intelligence of those who are stricken with GID are often very high. That is why the rage at Susan Stanton’s frivolous remarks. It is as if she is singular in having talent and seemingly above those who have preceeded her. She likely will see how difficult life is for the transitioned. I have a close transitioined friend who was without work for two years before finding a place where she could make a living. She is a medical doctor, moreover, she is nationally recognized for her abilities. There are many others and most have gone through some very tough times.
Jan 7th, 2008
Kimberli Jackson
Always good when you can introduce me to new and different places to get and give opionions. You have enlightened me so much since our meeting. Thanks.
Jan 7th, 2008
Stella
I think Susan Stanton, whether “they are like her or not”, was accurate in what was said.
Most trans people are men in dresses. Trans-think has it that women are hollow shells and that our experiences mean in becoming women. It is a trans conceptualization that you can live as long as Susan Stanton as a man and suddenly be transformed into a woman. Few things could be more negating to women. Few ideas are more male than the idea idea is that all you have to do is look like a woman and suddenly you are a woman. The matches the male prespective because it’s an externalized or “othered” perspective from women. The ‘view’ of women from the male perspective is one of appearance as opposed to having been subjected to what women experience and men seem remarkably impervious to that.
There is such a knee-jerk response to what Stanton said? Why can it not be examined? Why the hail of antipathy toward an honest perspective?
Jan 11th, 2008
Stellewriter
What is going on here, at large, is what makes so many good and valuable Trassexuals fade into the woodwork after transition. Time for us to look at ourselves and head to the wood shed. Time to shut down the “she said, they said” and move on to what can we do that has meaing and to making a better life for the transgender.
Jan 11th, 2008
Ethan St.Pierre
Who took Stella’s groove?
Jan 12th, 2008
Stella
Men in dresses.
Jan 12th, 2008
Ethan St.Pierre
Don’t know any of them, looks like you won’t be getting your groove back any time soon.
Jan 12th, 2008
Val
> Trans-think has it that women are hollow shells and that our experiences mean in becoming women. It is a trans conceptualization that you can live as long as Susan Stanton as a man and suddenly be transformed into a woman.
Famous “straw tranny” axioms.
Where do people like you come up with this crap?
Jan 12th, 2008
Analise
Who knows if the newspaper distorted her comments, but it’s a regrettable comment. However, I do understand how a number of us think this way and express these sentiments towards other TG people.
I’ve seen this sort of comment made before. It is sometimes done by someone wanting to affirm their self, as distinct from someone else who they think doesn’t pass as well, or acts less feminine. There are also TS girls out there who act overly submissive, more overtly feminine than many post-feminist, cisgendered females.
I went to my first TG support group last year and my immediate reaction was eek, men in dresses. Part of me said they’re all crossdressers, and I’ve avoided crossdressing so that I don’t look like that. I’m ashamed of that now, and I think that part of our coming out/coming to terms with our TG selves is learning about all of the variety there is, seeing more of ourself in others at different stages or on different side roads, to our own journey.
Jan 16th, 2008
Dennis
So if MtF’s are men in dresses, what are FtM’s? Doesn’t anyone consider this population and regardless of whether or not someone considers another to be a man in a dress or a woman in boots, why does any person, man, woman, or any other identification feel that they do not deserve protection? Why does any American in the year 2008 not have the right to dress and call themselves anything they want without fear? What a sad trans person this Susan must be. I am using the word trans, as in transgender, the umbrella term which is inclusive of all gender variant people. This word Susan does lump you in with all those men in dresses that you seem to loathe so much. Sorry.
Jan 17th, 2008