The Observer photograph [TW: Sexual Assault]
March 8, 2014
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March 9, 2014

Transgender woman Chloie Jönsson sues Crossfit for 2.5 Million after being told she had to compete with men

By Kelli Anne Busey
@kellibusey

 

Who has the problem with her competing with cisgender woman?

Chloie Jönsson is suing Rebox CrossFit for 2.5 Million dollars after receiving a letter reeking of cisgenderism and transphobia telling her she could not participate with other woman in the March Cross Fit Games.

In a letter obtained by TMZ Sports  she was told by CrossFit “We have simply ruled that based upon [Chloie] being born as a male, she will need to compete in the Men’s Division.”

CF argues … “The fundamental, ineluctable fact is that a male competitor who has a sex reassignment procedure still has a genetic makeup that confers a physical and physiological advantage over women.”

But in the letter, CF gets aggressive — saying, “Our decision has nothing to do with ‘ignorance’ or being bigots — it has to do with a very real understanding of the human genome, of fundamental biology, that you are either intentionally ignoring or missed in high school.”

Crossfit goes on in the letter saying that they ’embrace’ transgender athletes. But obviously not enough to allow a trans woman a chance at the $250,000.00 prize money.


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  • I think they are serving the best cross fit service for women. That’s why people like their service. My friend is taking their cross fit service.

  • Pingback: Crossfit’s “scientific” refusal to allow Chloie Jönnson to compete in women’s division not actually supported by science | The TransAdvocate()

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  • christian_transgender

    Warning to tired eyes: another Dee compilation

    THIGH LEVEL vs. EYE LEVEL

    Medical history, an integral part of a sex change, is so private that in 1996 the HIPAA Act was enacted by US Congress. While sex has been changed for almost 7 decades now, others beg to differ, playing the role of Gender Police and as this story demonstrates so well, continue to inflict costs on us based on our medical history. They uphold opinion as fact, and refute government’s authority to positively identify its citizens, including their sex. It defies understanding how Cross “unFit” lacks business acumen to such an extent that it truly believes it is exempt from federal and state civil protections specifically enacted to prevent discrimination such as this against the public. A gymnasium would be very low on my list of outfits that I would expect to be purveyors of discrimination. Clearly, the gym is responding to applied pressure from other female competitors who lack understanding of the effects of a medical transition that eliminates male strength sans testosterone. I still hold out hope that the gym will reverse its decision and exercise the only correct option: allow Chloie, now a female, to compete with females. Under law, there is no other legit option.

    Historically, discrimination based on race and sex have contributed to tremendous opportunity costs to family and nation. Even more egregious is that a government-issued ID, not one from a gumball machine, is rejected as proof of Chloie’s sex, (which even a police officer must accept), and the vile attempt, if accurate, by Cross “unFit” to invade Chloie’s medical records and history, essentially to prove that her penis is no more. Whether Kate Couric, Piers Morgan, or now Cross “unFit”, this incessant obsession with looking at we who have a trans history at thigh level rather than eye level will incur legal costs to those who fail to get the message: a female is a female is a female, yes even if some females have penises, truth be told. The law is the law, and opinion is but opinion. Our crotches are not exhibit A in an endless saga of Transgender “Show & Tell”. Cross “unFit” apparently has failed to get the message, but get the message it shall, even if coerced through legal enforcement, apparently welcomed.

    THE GENDER POLICE

    Many of us write about the unwritten GPC (gender police code) that by consequence (as per this story) is as real as any other enforcement code. The GPC is enforced, although usually not so overtly, against far too many of of my Trans brethren, self included, castigated for being neither male nor female, but “other”, despite our IDs truly identifying our sex. The effects of such unlawful conduct is far too often so extremely difficult to overcome that becoming peaceful warriors against the Gender Police enforcers is hardly an option, but a mandate through no efforts of our own. Many of us served in uniform, youths who sacrificed the early years of our lives under oath to uphold the US Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic, only to fall at home to enemies of LGB and Trans phobia. Without volunteers and their sacrifice to country, there can be no military. Without a military, there is no national defense and thus no national sovereignty. Despite the stereotypes associated with military veterans, none deserve to be treated as less than heroes, and yet we place celebrities, sports stars, and others far higher in the hierarchy of showered reverence. They live lives of grandeur, splendor and wealth, while many of us fail to thrive in a state of poverty. This isn’t whining, but a statistical fact.

    THE PEN IS MIGHTIER…

    The power of the word is the strongest weapon in Trans defense, and we must always resist the temptation to argue like a juvenile delinquent using expletives and tarnishing the dignity of another person, else credibility, so crucial in persuasion is lost. Sex can be and is changed even daily, but so too can an adversary change direction and become an ally, but never through protracted personal attack. We must truly believe that transgender exclusion on behalf of flawed religion or as a result of male phobia can be halted. We must believe that those who make LGBT persecution a way of life, often cloning themselves through their children, will one day become allies in the fight against our common enemy: violence against ALL females, including trans females, no matter the perpetrators.

    This can only happen if we all sit at the table, lay aside male and other phobias, which even if deserved, serve no constructive purpose but to dilute our energy—energy that could best be expended to repel LGB + T female violence. One person can change the world and a world is found within each person—individual dignity, intellect, temperament, personality, gender identity, sexual preference. This is what keeps me from forming complete judgement against any one group as a whole, for authentic Christians and non-exclusionary LGB groups do exist. We must never refrain from revealing and debunking the instances of trans disparagement no matter the sponsor, as perfected by this web site, and must resist all temptation to mutually reciprocate in vengeance but only to reveal hypocrisy and disparate standards, also perfected by Cristan and associates.

    PASSIVITY NOT AN OPTION

    Thus, we must unapologetically (but lovingly) engage to the best of our articulate ability and every milliliter of experience the enemies of LGBT equality, many who see us even as national security threats, not unlike Russia, Uganda, and other stone-age civilizations. They seek to dehumanize us (phase we are currently in) with history recording the series of events that occur to “enemies of the state” on a mass scale once they are demoted to essentially animals on two feet. We all know what often happens to animals. They often end up on our plates. At first it would appear that this is paranoia, however the TDOR, the hemoglobin of our fallen trans and LGBT brethren, and organized opposition reminds us that it is not an option but an obligation to repel those who seek our demise, without fear and regard to ultimate personal cost in whatever form that might be. Whilst Trans economic or physical extinction is an objective, a final solution deemed as rational, none of us can rest peacefully. Nothing is as final as an “honorable mention” in the “Who’s who” pages of the TDOR memorial or being thrust into perennial unemployment, a state many of us, find ourselves in.

    WORLD OF ILLUSION

    Cross now “unFit” ‘s anti-trans posture is shared by many who comment in social media who state that “once male always male” is essentially a definitive tenet in the GPC, along with “DNA doesn’t lie”, “biology cannot be changed or refuted”, “God made you male”, and many more. This, despite non-trans males and females historically redefining the very meaning of gender itself, with “real” women often having nothing real to exhibit any longer, courtesy of cosmetic, surgical and other accouterments used in our world of illusion and “real” men overcompensating for lack of sexual endowment by being “macho”, speaking over females, and undeserved male privilege. In fact “real” men surrendered to the world of illusion long ago, as they “feminized” their faces by interfering with the natural growth of hair, on the head or on the face. There is nothing wrong with this, in fact men look much better when they express themselves unrestrained. What is wrong is the hypocrisy that results when trans males and females are considered to be “violators of nature” or of divine law. In a world of illusion, participation is open to everyone, externally speaking, despite a very real medical sex change being no illusion, contrary to Cross “unFit’s” flawed opinion destined to be devalued.

    CASTIGATED for HER MEDICAL HISTORY

    The core argument behind Cross now “unFit” ‘s position is the “once male always male posture” and by holding fast to their opinion, perhaps religiously based or not, Chloie’s medical history (sex change revelation) has had to be revealed at cost to her privacy. Perhaps this gym has sought to make a stand and seek to invalidate even a medical transition as lawfully authentic for the purposes of establishing case law that would legislate trans bigotry and its fateful consequences into law. The tragedy here is that Chloie, despite possessing proof of her female sex/gender, is being castigated not for her sex/gender, but for her very own medical history and by extension privacy. If this isn’t an egregious in-her-face violation, perhaps even against HIPAA, I don’t know what is.

  • Brynn Tannehill

    For the record…

    Hishon v. King & Spalding (No. 82-940) 467 U.S. 69
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/467/69

    You cannot use religion, or private group status in commercial enterprise to violate Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. 9-0 decision by SCOTUS.

    Additionally, the Unruh Act in California prohibits discrimination in terms of public accomodations, including goods, services, and employment.

    http://www.ncdsv.org/images/ca_trans_law_101.pdf

    Also, while Richards v. US Tennis Association is not controlling, it certainly is persuasive.

    http://www.leagle.com/decision/197780693Misc2d713_1654

    In short, Chloie should mop the floor with these folks legally. If you don’t like it, well, you’d have to replace the entire Supreme Court with theocrats and repeal the Unruh Act.

    Good luck with that.

    • christian_transgender

      Thank you for chapter and verse! I knew they were out there and now I have the resources. From one vet to another, I salute you Brynn! We continue to be warriors for a benevolent cause……

  • Ruth Greenberg

    Where MtoF’s have a physical advanatge overw omen, of course they should not compete with women.

    • Brynn Tannehill

      According to the NCAA’s research and top experts, after a year on HRT any advantage they may have had has been lost and they are free to compete.

  • Youhow2

    I’d take her more seriously if she wasnt suing for 2.5 million.

  • christian_transgender

    MEMO

    To: Cross Now-Unfit

    From: Dee “lightful”

    Subject: Medical History

    I have become aware that recently you denied a female known as Chloie Johnson access to a female weightlifting competition. What are you thinking?

    I have also become aware that you are requesting that she reveal private medical records to show “proof” that she is really a she. I say again? What the ‘ell are you thinking?

    I am also aware that she has been a member for some time, a female member, and yet you now consider her to be male. Here, catch. Here’s a thinking cap for ya.

    Alright. Now that you are able to think, let’s engage in thought, not emotion. She is identified in her ID as transgender, not female right? Nope. It identifies her as female. What part of this “F” word are you failing to understand? Do you seriously believe that you can make her prove that she is female and not make the same demand of the other female members? Do you seriously believe that anyone can just walk up to DMV and request an ID based on “feeling like a female”? Do you seriously believe that I can just check in to any medical center and request that my little munchworm be put through that thingamjig that shreds tree branches? And come out in a few days with an innie?

    Do you seriously believe that sex cannot be changed, ever? Do you seriously believe that you have competent management in place, one that is keeping your club out of financial liability? If I tell you that I own the Grand Canyon, is that proof that I do? If I tell you that I have a transgender history is it proof that I really do? The proof isn’t in the pudding…..it’s right there on Chloies CA ID, just as is on my CA ID…..look closely for the word Sex. No that that kind of sex. Now sweep your eyes…..take the blinders off first……to the right and sing with me “A B C D, E, F…..stop right there…..look for the letter F. That is a legal binding document issued by the authority of the state sometimes referred to as a Driver’s License or ID, as proof of someone’s identity, including their sex. If it was proof enough for me on the shoulder of the I-5 freeway, or for CA Police officers “on demand”, how do you seriously believe that your authority exceeds theirs? I didn’t think so. Planet Fitness had it wrong last year, and now so do you. You owe us all a public apology. I have heard nothing but impeccable things about your gym. Don’t screw it up now.

    Don’t pretend like you’re not keeping up with this second to none trans advocate web site. We are all aware that everyone reads it on both sides of the issue and unlike other sites, opposing commentary, even if near-vulgar isn’t removed unless it really and truly strays so far off topic that it reeks of “cisgenderism and transphobia.” I extend an invitation to be part of the discussion. The wonder of our country is that conflicts are resolved with words, not physical combat, contrasted with other nations. As American citizens, we are taking the fight to the enemy, who brought the fight to us long ago, so much so that much trans blood saturates the ground demanding that we who are still above grass level seek justice, not vengeance. We are brave, courageous, and yet very loving people. We have been so loathed that even the LGB community has cut off the “T” lizard tail over and over, but this type it is regrowing coated with titanium. Of this fact let there be no mistake. We owe to the fallen and to the children who, unlike us, can have a fighting chance to grow up as the girls and boys they truly are and begin life the correct way.

  • MrEFQ

    “But obviously not enough to allow a trans woman a chance at the $250,000.00 prize money.”
    She can still compete with the men, so she still has a chance………

  • Johnny Ralph Horstman

    She can’t compete with men though because she’s a woman. That’s not fair.

  • Kim Schicklang

    “it has to do with a very real understanding of the human genome, of fundamental biology, that you are either intentionally ignoring or missed in high school” / “But genetically it is not fair to compete with women” /…

    hmmm… seems that someone doesn’t understand what was knowledge in the 1920ies: that sometimes biology isn’t as easy as it seems and chromosomes, genitals, bodyshape, and other sex-markers sometimes doesn’t fit together. Still, over 80 years after the Nazis in Germany destroyed the knowledge of Magnus Hirschfeld in Berlin, there are people who couldn’t accept that biology isn’t the same as their stereotypical view about biology. If girls are born with male body-parts they still are hated from parts of society who aren’t willing to accept sexual diversity in nature.

  • jimp

    i am 100% pro-choice: anyone should be able to do anything they want with their own life and body, so long as it does not negatively affect another human being. seeing transgenders makes me happy, knowing that they made a decision and are living a happier life because of it. and yes, i complete agree that everyone should be accepting of transgenders and their choice to be whatever gender they want, but anyone who thinks a male turned female competing against females is fair is simply ignorant. don’t get your socio-political views confused with logic. i’m not saying that it is more fair that she compete against males, but really the only fair thing would be if she only competed against other male turned females… obviously that is not possible and hence the fairest available solution must be implemented, but only a doctor who understand the physiological differences between hormone levels, the male vs. female frames in regards to mechanical advantages etc. can make a ‘fair’ decision on the matter.
    this article is clearly bias (no surprise, written by transadvocate.com…), and i think people should recognise that “reeking of transphobia” is a little bit of an extreme reaction to something that doesnt need to become an irrational, emotionally driven argument. speak only truths and the fair, logical solution will follow. peace.

    • christian_transgender

      Bias or not, this article is stating the fact that she was ostracized from competition. The truth is—Crossfit is saying that she is “still a man”, in defiance of medical and legal authorities! Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Here’s another truth: she WAS a man, but is no longer, no matter anyone’s opinion. No one is hiding these two truths.

      Guess what else is true? Doctors “who understand the physiological differences between hormone levels, the male vs female frames……can make a fair decision on the matter.” Yes they can and yes they do. In fact Chloie, myself, and other females (or males) who have transitioned gender would still be considered to be male, had it not been for a doctor who “understands the physiological differences between hormone levels, the males vs female frames. and DID make a fair decision on the matter.”

      Translation: not you, not me, not a police officer, a judge, a street-sweeper driver, or anyone but a DOCTOR can submit proof in writing (with the doctor’s MD #) that I, Chloie and others have medically changed our sex and are now female. This proof is required by courts and state & federal government to update one’s sex. Yes, a medical doctor is the expert on sex/gender matters as it should be, and such as been the case for almost 7 decades.

      You all can scream fowl till the cows come home but none of you are the medical experts, and neither am I. Crossfit will lose by holding on to their opinion…..it’s an opinion that was debunked over 60 years ago! Jimp here is spot on!

    • Alexander Jasper-Jay Campbell

      I’m glad you like us transgenders and we make you happy but they very fact you are saying transgenders suggests you need to seek further education on the subject.

  • Tristan Lee …..

    I wonder if they would allow a trans man to compete since …. in their words…. the cis males would have a better chance of winning since they have the genetic make-up of a man. I would tell them that they haven’t seen some of the trans men I have.

  • Jim Voss

    Transgender Athletes may indeed have an advantage, We are finding out every day though science that the differences between men and woman are more then skin deep. Given the fact that Choie was born a male it is not unfair to make her compete with the men. They are not asking here to identify as a Man are they, If she is able to use the Woman’s Locker room then and dress as a woman then Crossfit is trying to make the proper accommodation for here. Maybe they need to open a separate competition category for Trans-men and Trans Women

    • Alexander Jasper-Jay Campbell

      And that scientific evidence backs up that transexuality is a medical condition because the transsexual women has the brain functions of a cis women. If she has the hormone levels of a women and the brain functions of a women and evidence shows she’s an average competitor… where’s the advantage? Btw the separate category idea is stupid and dangerous, some trans athletes are stealth, and trans people aren’t some strange middle gender.

      • christian_transgender

        My God I adore your passion my brother!!!!!! Whooooooeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

        • Alexander Jasper-Jay Campbell

          Thanks. Its just so stupid when people who don’t know what they are talking about weigh in on issues that don’t even affect them.

          • christian_transgender

            Wuz a’thinkin about this. My rough estimate is that 85% of those opposed simply don’t know what they are talking about, 10% simply loathe us and their vile language says so, with 5% just looking to stir up emotions against others.

  • Casey

    I find it ironic that Crossfit accuses Chloe of “ignoring basic high school lessons” while ignoring the equally scientifically relevant effects of estrogen HRT. The very action of hormones is to activate DNA related to secondary sexual characteristics, like muscle mass. If testosterone isn’t present at male levels, all that ‘genetic advantage’ goes out the window because without the T, those genes aren’t going to express themselves.

  • Shelle Iles

    The argument just doesn’t hold water for me I’m a transwomen who has been on hormones for years and I have lost almost all my muscle mass and couldn’t compete at all in a mans sport.

  • DJEB

    Why not have men’s and women’s divisions unrestricted, and have an xy division and a yy division?

    • Jenlikesscience

      I always thought a “varsity” and “junior varsity” league would solve these issues.

    • christian_transgender

      Because if y = 0, the answer is none of the above.

  • Al Wolf

    so fucking lame. ok trans stfu and stop bitching i support your choice but its like the femnzai movement all over again. this male is suing as he is being forced to compete with other males!!! he is MAN, he had alterations to not LOOK like a man BUT still A MAN. fuck off.

    • Jenlikesscience

      Your ignorance is astounding. Please, do some research.

      • Al Wolf

        he is a he no matter what drugs he pumps into his body. this is blackmail/extortion. simple enough

    • Alexander Jasper-Jay Campbell

      She is a women and you are an ignorant bucket of slime. She has the hormone levels of a girl she should be able to compete as a girl.

      • Al Wolf

        he is a he no matter what drugs he pumps into his body did i piss you off? go cry about it

        • christian_transgender

          No sir ma’am. Cryin’ wolf not allowed. Ummmmmmmmmm…..your undies are showing! In other words it is now obvious (was from the beginning for me) that your presence here is to agitate and titillate………to “piss us off”………well I hereby crown you with the Upside Down Ice Cream cone award, filled with bitter pecan……..you need to go that way—————————-> [[EXIT]]

    • christian_transgender

      We regret to inform you that the minimum age of consent for mature conversations is 16. Please return in 4 years when you are of age. In the meantime, work on your ability to actually make a comment that is credible and spray some WD-40 on your Caps Lock Key. It appears to stick intermittently. While you are at it, I have some homework for you my child.

      On Monday, report to your 5th grade class with a report comparing and contrasting the following: “transvestite”, “transgender”, and “transsexual”. I want it double-spaced with at minimum 500 words, MLA format. No Pee Chee folders, those went out with round-dial phones. While you are at it, define the meaning of “support your choice”, because even the Nazis supported the rights of gays to have fellowship camps. Also, please put away your toys so your mom doesn’t trip when she walks in to spoon feed you.

      • Al Wolf

        he is a he no matter what drugs he pumps into his body.

        • christian_transgender

          But, but, but there is such a thing as “used to be” is there not? We all “used to be children”, and some of us still are (see a couple of comments above ;)….seriously thanx for replying without cussin’……I am impressed!

          Ok…I know what you mean but none of us are our past history! As time marches on, we change……..men lose hair……women lose figure…….etc. etc. One of the changes that really are possible is (I know you will disagree but that’s ok……cuz u stopped cussin’……..) so one of the changes are that males can become females and the other way around. Now not without hormones or surgery of course……..and yes skeletal changes aren’t possible………..but if drugs don’t cause changes then why do meth abusers change drastically? My ID now shows F………so sorry but my ID trumps opinion….and to get that changed it took a doctor………truth be publicly told.

    • Kirah Farrow

      It’s a little ironic that your accusing Nazism while enforcing Nazi beliefs .

  • anastasiadenton

    I don’t see her doing anything “Guy appropriate” for crossfit. Female appropriate, yes, but not male. & Besides she’d be the PERFECT trainer for newbies like me that have had issues everywhere else. Because she gets challenge.

  • Julia Knight

    I happen to be a transwoman and I can guarantee you that hormone replacement therapy turns your body into a woman and you lose a lot of muscle mass. I am not as strong as I used to be and I have never gone to a gym. A transwoman is just as much female as a transman would be male. like it or not, once you have changed, you lose a lot of abilities that you once had. I don’t believe in pushing myself on others, but if you are going to make an issue of it then I will stand up for my rights and fight anyone to keep those rights. Cudos to the woman for fighting for what was given to her and then taken away.

  • Janet Sutton

    I don’t usually care what people do in their own lives. However, as a female, I would feel uncomfortable in the dressing room, I would feel the competition would be unfair. I don’t think clubs have to be forced to change rules based on their personal choices. I think it is unfair to force a club to change their rules, make your own club, make your own rules, don’t force it upon anyone else to accept your beliefs. That is the problem, If it was my club and I said no, don’t go to that club. Why sue me? because in reality, I do have the right to refuse you, as other clients would feel uncomfortable. That is why they have gentlemen clubs , why women have social clubs. What makes you any different? Because it is a gender club, so if you don’t like their rules, create your own club, your own views, and everyone will have a happy place. But don’t expect me to be forced to bend my views. How is that fair to me?

    • Jenlikesscience

      So, as a female, you are uncomfortable changing in locker rooms with other women? You may want to stay home to exercise then. She is a woman.

    • Alexander Jasper-Jay Campbell

      Um excuse me? You’d feel uncomfortable in the dressing room with her? She is a post-op transwomen on HRT in other words you wouldn’t know there was any difference between her and any other girl in that dressing room. If anything she should be the one uncomfortable because bigots like you exist. People like you who discriminate against people like me for having a medical condition. Saying you’d be uncomfortable with her in the change room is essentially saying you’d be uncomfortable with someone with cancer or someone in a wheel chair in the change room. She is a women in mind and now in body and if you’re so uncomfortable with that you should be the one not allowed in these clubs. What if someone asked you to go to the mens club? How would that make you feel? Pretty shitty right, now imagine having to fight to be recognized as your own gender every day? Honestly you can fuck right off.

    • Kirah Farrow

      Another example of the ignorant. I really hope she doesn’t feel empowered now that two other people who don’t know what they are talking about liked her status.

      • christian_transgender

        This one’s EZ………two people, like a clock believe they’re right 2x a day…………

    • Dana Taylor

      So, what you are saying is you would feel more comfortable with Buck Angel in your dressing room? http://asp.elitefts.net/images/upload/qa/62angel.jpg

  • christian_transgender

    This is a slam-dunk loss for Cross-Fit. Private businesses open to public clientele often referred to as “open to the public” under our system of government are not given free pass to discriminate. She has been a member as a female and no one is arguing the facts of the case. Cross-fit is not an invitation-only venue. If they accept customers for whom they are, and have accepted her as female otherwise, they will be held civilly liable for reversing course. They cannot accept her as female today, but not tomorrow.

    • Janet Sutton

      The problem with that theory, and reasoning is very interesting. You see, she is not really a female, she is a male wanting to be a female. That is fine to join the club, work at the club in a professional manner. However, the problem is, they have the advantage of actually being male. That is not fair to other competing females. Not that they are discriminating against your personal choice, but it does have to be fair across the board. I will make this easier, if I come to your home a female, straight, and I said I want to change your home, because this isn’t what I want or like, you let everyone in straight or gay or transgender. But its not fair to me, because I am different. Would you change? No of course not, it is your home. I wouldn’t change my home. So why would you want a company to change rules, so you can have attention win all the competitions? To me that is cheating. Not that they are against your personal choices, they want it to be fair.

      • corinne keeley

        Actually, she IS REALLY a female, not a male wanting to be a female. She’s undergone surgery, hormone therapy etc. How are you stuck on her being a male?

      • christian_transgender

        Except that it is no theory, for legal fact is legal fact established by case law and countless statutory decisions. It long ago ceased being “interesting reasoning” and Cross-Fit will be but one of countless other businesses who unfortunately learn the hard way that a female is a female is a female regardless of birth sex.

        I do understand what you are saying, which is a commonly held mistaken belief. For over 60 years now birth sex has been able to be medically changed, as in truly medically changed. Remember we’re not talking about gay male drag queens here who are part-time female in appearance only and powered by testosterone. A home is privately owned but not “open to the public” as a business for profit. Everything is conditional and one of the conditions of businesses under private ownership is not to engage in discriminatory practices laterally (employees) or externally (customers). There are exceptions for example private places of worship or their faith-based schools provided they are not receiving federal $.

        Cross-fit doesn’t need to change rules whatsoever. Only females will be able to compete against females, period. Make no mistake about it, just as Corinne states below, she has been medically female for some time now. This isn’t about attention for we don’t change our sex “for attention”. We change our sex to match our inner gender identity, come what may. By the way, when I exercise I feel the tremendous difference from having but little testosterone. I truly feel much, much weaker. Chloie’s strength doesn’t come from male testosterone but from constant physical exercise that is much, much more difficult to undergo now.

      • Kirah Farrow

        Behold the example of the uneducated.

      • Dana Taylor
  • Ludo

    I get it. I am not trying to make anyone angry but it is likely I will :/ The fact of the matter is that men and women are born with different likelihood of developing certain physical characteristics. Just my opinion, but I don’t really feel that men and women being generally physically different is up for debate. This organisation chooses to split the event into men’s and women’s just like many others do. This particular athlete may be a female, but the organisation explained its position and I kind of find it pretty fair. They are likely to get sued by a bunch of other women competing if she wins.

    I understand (and at the same time could never fully understand) the barriers that the trans community want to break down and have to deal with. But this to me seems like just a reflex reaction at a decision being made based on the fact that this woman is trans. Completely ignoring the logic of the situation just because you want to support a trans person doesn’t really help anyone. They aren’t letting someone into a gym because the person is trans? Hell yeah, fuck that gym. But not letting someone compete because of physiological differences to the other competitors kind of just seems fair to me.

    I would welcome any friendly discussion replying to this, but please keep in mind I am trying to engage in productive conversation so I would appreciate if you could do the same. If you think my comments are stupid, sure, tell me why.

    • stirfry247

      NO ONE is arguing for competition based on gender identity alone. Chloe is a post-op transwoman who has had the hormone levels of any other female for years. That type of long term hormonal change does reduce an MTF trans woman to female performance levels. The NCAA and IOC Olympic committee have supported that with research and both allow trans women to play when they have met specific medical requirements.

      Look at Chloe’s actual lifts. They are completely unremarkable for an amateur female competitor. They don’t prove she has an unfair advantage, they prove that she has a female level of performance. Crossift claims that transwomen must greatly outlift cis women and therefore compete in the men’s division, but actual records of Chloe’s lifts show she lifts LESS. In fact, she lifts less than many women an entire weight class beneath her.

      The same story has played out in the Olympics. Uneducated people refused to believe doctors when they said two years of testosterone elimination can reduce an MTF to female performance levels. And
      yet it does. No trans women has ever had good enough performance to
      qualify for the Olympics despite being allowed to compete. If a man
      competing even at the top of the amateur level was allowed to enter a
      women’s Olympic event they would not only qualify they would place first in their events and set new records. What’s more plausible, that trans women are just as physically week as doctors and real life performance records indicate, or that they are all faking it?

      Arguments about bone attachments and psychology are also bad, because again, look at the real life performance. Where trans women are allowed to compete with cis females they are performing worse, not better. Two of the greatest myths detractors have spread is that Renee Richards was some kind of tennis monster and the Fallon Fox is the next UFC champ. Renee Richards never ranked higher than 22, which remains the performance record for any transgender woman in tennis. That means places 22-1 were occupied by cis women even at the top of her game and most years every ranked position is occupied by cis women. Fallon Fox competes in an amateur league that has had less than a dozen events. She wouldn’t qualify for the UFC let alone win a championship there.

      I’m not arguing for placing trans women(who meet specific medical standards) in women’s competition because of political ideology, I’m arguing for it based on actual performance levels that overwhelmingly show they perform worse than than average in women’s divisions, not better.

      • Ludo

        This was very interesting and informative, thanks.

      • corinne keeley

        Thank you for all the information on Chloe and her statistics…knowing that she doesn’t have super human strength or any advantage makes this discrimination down right wrong/sad.

    • Samantha

      When someone undergoes a sex change they get hormone replacement therapy so she’s more of a woman than she is a man.

      Just an interesting thing to think about (and even as a cisgender person I’m excited about), SRY has been identified as the gene (found on the Y chromosome) responsible for determining gender (it’s presence activates SOX9 which gears the development of the testis and depresses the activity of FOXL2 the pro-female gene). If SRY and FOXL2 can be manipulated in the correct way (even in adults) a person can undergo a true sex change. We’re still several years away from this being a reality but I think I might see it in my life!

    • christian_transgender

      At first blush it does appear that “men and women are born with different likelihood..” until you actually take a good look at men and women across all racial and cultural lines. Some races have quite large women and some have quite small men. Because women and men come in all various sizes, body weight is used to classify competitive classes. Translated: once a male weakens to female levels from estrogen and lack of testosterone, it’s a matter of weight not size.

      The organization did explain its position and at first blush it does appear to be fair, until you discover like Stirfry below so deftly and skillfully articulates, that the organization stands alone in advocating a completely medically flawed opinion. Opinions don’t settle matters, but facts do.

      There is no reflex decision to be made by anyone. Your comment appeared to have some credibility until you, although unintentionally, falsely stated that “this woman is trans”. No she is not trans. As you say she is a woman and has been for a lengthy period. Trans is not an identity but a phase one has begun or completed, period. There is no “trans person” to support. The topic here is a female with a trans history, not a “trans person”. May I remind you that she lives in a country that has no third gender? Also what physiological advantage? She isn’t that large of a person. In fact many females are larger.

      I won’t call you stupid because you are not, however this would accurately describe your comment for the reasons I have mentioned, respectfully.

  • Kirah Farrow

    “The
    fundamental, ineluctable fact is that a male competitor who has a sex
    reassignment procedure still has a genetic makeup that confers a
    physical and physiological advantage over women.” I’m not a doctor but I can give you a couple reasons on why this is bull shit.

    • Feather

      Also, the fact that they call her a “male competitor” while professing to embrace trans athletes just shows how ignorant they are about what being trans means.

    • macdabby

      yes, and also this is a private organization and they can make whatever damn rules they like – u want to compete with the ladies? start your own!

      • Timothy Hansma

        How much you wanna bet Macdabby gets bent out of shape over the idea of women’s only gym hours too?

        Yes, Crossfit is a private institution– but many affiliates benefit from non-profit status. Also, just because the Civil Right’s Act of 1964 hasn’t quite caught up to Title IX insofar as trans* rights are concerned? Doesn’t mean it’s not shitty.

        This athlete has worked very hard to compete at the level she does. She also has invested time, energy, money, and her personal resources to work out at Crossfit, and to help train other people. Her money was good enough to take as a woman, but she can’t compete as one?

        Just as the Boy Scouts of America discovered, just as any other kind of bigot who uses their institutional power to hide behind their ignorance, eventually, people who discriminate against trans* people will discover that it’s not going to end so well for them.

        • Janet Sutton

          The problem with forcing others, is again an attention getter. They have gentlemen’s clubs, the have lady social clubs. If that is your thing. Me personally, I don’t need club society to fit in. But genetically it is not fair to compete with women, if you are a male, even though you cut off the parts, doesn’t mean the rest has left. It is not fair. Actually to be very honest with you, I don’t join clubs, because of diseases. I don’t care if it is hetrosexual, homosexual, or the confused whatever. I work out at home, hot tub, and I don’t need to compete to fit in. Either you like me, or you don’t. That is fine. But my house my rules. Keep your views at your home. I wouldn’t dream of coming to your home and telling you to accept me. That is not what you are getting, you don’t go to someone club and tell them how to run it. You are wrong if you think that. They allow people to work in their clubs to help others, but they have the right to protect others like myself. Because to me, that

          • Timothy Hansma

            You know, that was the exact argument people used to discriminate against Black folks too. They also used that argument to keep women out of schools, out of jobs.

            You also don’t have a very firm understanding of endocrinology and how hormones affect the body. If I were to take estrogen, my muscle mass would decrease, my body would develop breasts, and I would grow fatty deposits on my hips and buttocks. I would lose body hair. If I were to maintain my already rigorous training schedule, I would still lose muscle mass in my upper body.

            If I were to “cut off the parts” I had that produced testosterone, you don’t think my body would change? Then why do men who suffer from industrial accidents or who have lost their genitals due to cancer need testosterone replacement therapy? Why do women who have undergone a hysterectomy require estrogen?

            I can show you a picture of this athlete, and compare it to the body of my cis gendered female friend, who also trains heavily, and you won’t see much of a difference in their physiques.

            As far as this being “club”, it is actually the law to discriminate. That’s the law I cited. You don’t have to like it, but you do have to respect it.

            “You don’t join clubs because of diseases” So, you don’t even work out at a gym, yet you feel entitled to talk about who and what should happen in a gym?

            “Heterosexual, homosexual or confused”? Lady, you’re just a bigot. An ignorant bigot. You don’t care about this issue, you don’t care about businesses rights. You’r on a site called “transadvocate” and you have nothing but disdain for people who aren’t exactly like you.

            You see, society caters to you. You don’t have to “prove” anything, because society already accepts you as the gender you are.

            This lady is competing because she enjoys competing. She’s worked hard– and she has earned a place.

            I’d far prefer to work out with someone like her than you. People like you make the gym, and society, just less enjoyable for everyone.

          • NuclearBeaver

            How tolerant of you, calling people racists and bigots. Name calling is so tolerant and classy.

          • @NuclearBeaver:disqus – calling someone a racist or a bigot is not name-calling. It’s statement of fact. There’s nothing offensive about being called black if you are black, or a lesbian if you’re a lesbian. Likewise, there’s nothing offensive in calling someone a racist if they’re a racist, or a bigot if they’re a bigot.

          • macdabby

            I see where you’re going with this – but i’m not even sure if that’s a great argument. Consider two women – one has ‘stronger’ genes than the other. They both train just as hard and eat the exact same diet but one is taller, faster and more muscular. Does that mean that they can’t compete together?

            Look at fight sports – and while they are divided by male/female – they are also subdivided by the competitor’s weight. If the gym decided to divide by weight regardless of gender, would the government be able to force someone heavier to compete in a lighter weight division because they have some sort of hormone / metabolism condition?

            And certainly there are women who can outperform some of the men – should those men be forced into the female category or the women forced into the male category?

            The rule is completely arbitrary. It was created by the club and is enforced by the club. The rule was created to make separate categories of competitors. It’s up to the rule makers to decided where the line is.

            And to be fair, it’s not like they even banner her from the competition altogether so the bigotry argument doesn’t even apply.

          • Alexander Jasper-Jay Campbell

            She is not a male she is a post op trans women and legally recognized as female. They don’t just cut off bits they also go on hormones. She is at the same level if not lower then most women. By making her compete as a male it is discrimination and last time I check she wasn’t going in your home.

        • macdabby

          That actually exactly my point – i’m all for equality for everyone – but i also respect personal liberty to the highest degree. I think bigotry is ignorance, and I understand there are a lot of misconceptions about trans life style – but it is unwise to ask government to force someone to act as if they are not ignorant, because allowing government that power also allows a majority of bigots to form and force the minority who aren’t to participate in that division against their will.

          Think jim crow laws – many businesses would have been happy to integrate, but it was simply against the law.

          If people don’t like that gym’s policy and want to support the athlete, they can boycott, or they can join with her to form another gym. these are all peaceful resolutions that do not require the use of force, and everyone is happy.

          At the very least, if you force the gym to allow her to participate, the owners still have the power to make it extremely uncomfortable for her in the way they operate their business by harassing her or intimidating her within the law – think imposing late fees on her membership where they waive it for any other member, etc.

          • Timothy Hansma

            Macdabby, If you think many businesses during Jim Crow would have been happy to integrate, you are frightfully ignorant of not only the history of that time, but bigotry.

            For you, this is an abstract exercise in business rights– you have that privilege as a cis gendered male. As a White guy, for you talk about Jim Crow like you do, also shows a frightful amount of denial.

            And if they make her life uncomfortable, “bully her within the law”? They just prove her point.

            Why are you defending people that would harass and intimidate anyone? Doesn’t that raise any red flags?

          • macdabby

            Dude, I first of all, your arguments are called ad hominem, instead of attacking ME – calling ME ignorant – why don’t you support your argument? For example you could explain to me why a bus company was happy to use two separate busses, one for blacks and one for whites, which were at times both half empty, when he could have used a single bus, been paying only one driver, and not been cutting into his profits? That’s a perfect example of a business owner who DID want to integrate his business but wasn’t allowed to because of the law. And if people were so unwilling to integrate, why would they need that law in the first place?

            And how am I defending these people by calling them ignorant bigots?

            Abstract exercise? maybe … but i prefer to have a few simple abstract rules that make most people happy all the time over a few specific rules that too specifically put one persons rights above another. But one thing’s for sure, you won’t ever catch me in a internet message board calling someone names who opposed my view. No matter how much i may disagree with you, I won’t call you ignorant because it adds absolutely ZERO value to the discussion at hand.

            Clearly you don’t like bigots. If you owned a business, and a group of customers came to your business wearing t-shirts saying same hateful speech towards you personally with your name on it, and those shirts insulted you personally with racial slurs and gender slurs, would you like the government to force you to serve them?

            Understandably that person is clearly different than athlete in the original post, but when you start making more and more specific rules, where do you draw the line?

            If you feel inclined to respond, please try to do so without hurling insults at me.

          • Timothy Hansma

            It’s not an ad hominem to say you’re ignorant of history and how bigotry works. Despite popular Internet opinion, ad hominem doesn’t mean whatever hurts your feelings.

            That’s great that you called them ignorant bigots, but you’re still doing this devil’s advocate thing that is just counterproductive too. The devil doesn’t need any more advocates– as you can see from Janet.

            Jim Crow laws came along because of bigotry– bigotry that still exists. While we changed the law that gave bigots the power to overtly discriminate, many of the attitudes (and those attitudes affect how we implement the laws), exist today.

            It reminds me of those arguments I’ve heard from people that talk about how the Civil War was about state’s rights, and that with the advent of electricity, slavery would have been phased out.

            Without getting too convoluted on what was a poor analogy on your part, this whole “greater good” thing? Whose greater good? The greater good of people to discriminate just because they choose to be ignorant and believe that trans people are just confused freaks?

            We live in a country where trans people are 14 times more likely to be murdered, they face constant discrimination in the form of job opportunities, sexual assaults, legal representation. Compound that with other things– such as being a Person of Color or disabled?

            So yeah, greater good. That’s awesome– but this whole middle of the road fallacy thing you’re doing, that’s harmful.

            Crossfit had an opportunity to be really awesome, and they chose to be shitty. They chose to discriminate– and this lady is well within her right to sue. She has a viable tort. There is no way she can compete in the male side– because, she’s not a man.

          • macdabby

            I understand your statistics. But we’re not talking about the gym owner murdering her.

            We both agree that bigotry as well as murder are bad. But by telling someone they can’t be in their competition is not murdering someone. It’s not taking away their rights. Not even a civil right, because there is no civil right that allows you to be on anyone’s private property without their consent.

            I’ll admit I’ve learned a lot in this thread alone about this woman specifically, but consider the implications of this ruling.

            The special olympics has, i’m sure, a list of conditions which a person must meet to enter into one of their competitions. I doubt they would let a fully able bodied and able minded child into their competitions – and I also realize the insensitivity that a parent or entrant might have trying to enter in that contest when they would clearly have an unfair advantage as well as completely missing the spirit of the event. Now there may be a new mental illness that’s not on their list, and the board of the special olympics might not recognize it or might not believe that it’s within the spirit of their event. It might just be that they don’t understand the illness. They might deny the child entry at that point. The parent might rightfully be outraged, they might present a case to educate the board about the illness to sway their decision. But should a parent of a completely able bodied and not disabled child be able to sue the special olympics to have their child entered into the olympics?

            I understand this argument is abstract, but consider the way the legal system works. If a parent were nutty enough to try this, they could certainly use the lawsuit which is the basis of this article as jurisprudence and precedent to uphold their argument.

          • Timothy Hansma

            Okay. So I get that you’re honestly ignorant and you’re asking questions not to derail, but to clarify. I can respect that.
            Again, this isn’t the special Olympics. Your analogies really need some work– because they’re missing the mark. I’m not trying to insult you as a person, it’s an observation from just this thread– I hear what you’re saying, but it’s not the same thing. This person is not abled person trying to co-opt the Special Olympics. She’s a woman– with a woman’s capabilities wanting to participate as a woman.

            They have determined this in the original Olympics– why is it so hard for people to get in other places? I see what you’re going for, but it misses the mark.

            That being said, what also makes the women-only gym hours different, is that women do have a real issue with guys harassing them in the gym– and I’m lucky enough to have worked out at gyms that weren’t meat markets. I don’t see it all the time, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

            And does it suck that there are lady’s hours that keep guys from working out? Yeah– hell, I’ve made that argument too. But the reality is, this wouldn’t happen if we didn’t live in a sexist society that objectifies women, and gives men this feeling of justification for intruding on her space. No, I’m not talking about all men, but enough.

            is it murder to deny this woman the right to compete? No– I’m not making that argument, but the problem with discriminatory thinking and ignorance is that they build on each other.

            Crossfit is pretty public, and what they’re doing, even if you don’t think they should do it from a legal standpoint, is hurting their image, their brand. Crossfit is vaunted as being that system that embraces the young and the old, hell, you see pregnant crossfitters do clean and jerks, and that’s okay.

            But somehow, they’re not able to accept transgender people?

            And Chloe has the right to sue. She’s a woman, she has a woman’s physique, she’s trained as a woman, she’s lived as a woman.

            And now she’s being told she can’t compete as a woman, they’re telling her she’s a man.

            Think about that.

          • christian_transgender

            No we are not talking about a criminal violation such as murder but a civil violation nonetheless that will hold Cross Fit legally accountable. There is no excuse or rationale to discriminate.

          • christian_transgender

            Exactly about the civil tort.

        • macdabby

          And to your point, about women only hours at the gym – no, i don’t get bent out of shape. because i recognize a gyms right to do that. and i don’t see how getting to decide who get’s to be in their gym during certain hours based on gender is any different than deciding who can be in a contest based on gender.

          the only exception I could see to that rule is if i paid for a membership to a gym which allowed me access at any time, then after I had already paid, they change the rules to make certain hours women only. That would be a breach of contract. But if I knew that going in, i would not be offended at all.

          You don’t mention if you are for or against a gym’s right to be able to do that, but based on the way you stated it I would assume that you are for a gym’s right to do that. But you are against a gyms right to create a different arbitrary rule on who is able to compete in the contest. Why can’t I compete in that contest as a naturally born ci (is that what you called it?) male in the women’s contest? The rule is, after all, quite arbitrary.

        • juststacey

          “Her money was good enough to take as a woman, but she can’t compete as one?”

          Does Crossfit have different membership rates for men and women?
          NO

          Are their different currencies for men and women?
          NO

          Is there ANY correlation between them taking her money “as a woman” and them letting her compete as a woman?
          NO

      • Kirah Farrow

        Maybe but the reason their doing it is both inaccurate and bigoted. If they don’t like Trans people just say you don’t like Trans people. Rather then making stuff up a simple Google search can debunk.

        • macdabby

          True to that – although that could be their marketing machine that would be happy to still take her money – but know they would lose her business if they did that. One reason I dislike large corporations in general is that they are extremely impersonal and rarely ever draw any distinct moral conclusions.

          • Kirah Farrow

            True and but just as sad. These people are the faces of America and understanding before us.I really hope it changes but more than likely its not anytime soon.I just wish Morality didn’t lose to currency every time.

      • christian_transgender

        Understood however private doesn’t translate to “making whatever damn rules they like” in practice within our constitutional form of government (US). As soon as a “private” business opens itself up to serving the public, such as this gym, it must conditionally abide by fair standards in serving the public. As much as we would love for “private” to really mean so private that businesses aren’t liable, again not so fast. There are a myriad of rules that must be adhered to for example labor laws. If a business serves the public, it must do so without discrimination. These are civil laws that are subject to enforcement, no different than enforcing criminal laws on “private” establishments and residences.

        Certainly there are privileges for privately held businesses but these are held legally in balance with citizen rights to be free of discrimination as defined by law. If what I just said is false, then she would not have first discovered that her complaint has legal standing resulting in her filed lawsuit.

      • Kylie Michelle Fraser

        except that crossfit is a business that accomodates the public. any body can walk into an affiliate, and sign up. by law, they cannot discriminate against a person based on gender identity (illegal under california law) they are saying that cis women may compete with women, but transwomen must compete with men. the state of California recognizes her as a female. to the law, down to birth certificate, she is female. the competition she was denied entry into was open trials, again, open to the public. she is a female, should compete with females. to force her to compete with men is highly unfair. do they think a person with the physiology of a women COULD compete with men?

        something that seems to not be talked about: what would crossfit do if this were a trans MAN trying to compete with other men? you don’t think they’d make him compete with women, do you?

        • “what would crossfit do if this were a trans MAN trying to compete with other men? you don’t think they’d make him compete with women, do you?”

          Well obviously not – he has extra testosterone and we all know testosterone makes you big and strong and manly, right? :oP

          • Alexander Jasper-Jay Campbell

            Actually trans men can’t compete at all once on HRT because the testosterone we take is classified as a steroid… you know its sad really. I could have the same T levels or lower then my team mates but I can’t compete because cis men and women have abused synthetic T. I had to quit all the sports I was in once I realized this because I didn’t see the point in continuing if I would just be kicked out later.

          • Oh man, I’m sorry to hear that. I’m a trans dude too, though not on T yet. I’m disabled so I couldn’t do sports if I tried, but you know – I’d like to have the *option* if I miraculously got better, you know? :o/

          • Alexander Jasper-Jay Campbell

            Yeah back before I was out I was on track to being an Olympic swimmer but dysphoria set in and I couldn’t bare putting on a swim suite. But still it would be nice for after top surgery to be able to at least compete with masters.

          • Timothy Hansma

            That really sucks Alexander, I’ve actually thought about that– trans* dudes on T actually being considered actually juicing? I mean, I’ve some trans* dudes who look ripped as hell, but I mean– is it just the T, or they train like beasts?

            I think it would be awesome if trans* male atheletes could consent to really rigorous and regular dope testing, and someone who knows about trans* issues could determine if they’re doing enough to be at the right level for transitioning, or getting an advantage above and beyond even cis dudes have?

            And what does that say for cis dudes (like myself), who naturally produce more T than the average cis dude? (And no, this is less about bragging– my hairline and man-pelt show it’s not as glorious as some make it out to be).

            Is it fair that we compete with more testosterone? I mean, we happen to have more of it than other dudes, we just came by it via genetics?

          • christian_transgender

            This is so wrong on many levels. Considering that laws are broken down into such detail with untold number of exceptions, I am shocked that trans men taking T is considered abuse of steroids. The distinction between cis and T persons is very clear. You are right in that testosterone is considered as a drugs with a moderate to low potential for physical and psychological dependence: a schedule III drug within DEA classification.

            This needs to change. Steroids have medical applications just as tylenol with codeine does. A trans male taking steroids for sex/gender purposes is not equivalent to a cis male already producing T injecting T.

      • Megumi Yuuki

        Private or Govt, Facts are facts and can not be changed. There are laws about discrimination. You cant have a Slave Market just because it is a “Private Company”. Laws MUSTbe followed. Think About it and reflect on yoru statement, then subsitute *Trans, for any other word, like Color, Race, Religion… you Might see where your thinkingn is flawed.

        • macdabby

          laws MUST be followed? don’t make me bring up the N word (the german one) … did you know that slavery was once legal, even though many people saw it as immoral? If a slave were to escape, and knock on your door begging for help, it would have been your legal obligation to return them to their owner and let them be beaten for escaping. I’m not siding with discrimination, and I agree with your compassion, but your argument is strictly based on emotions and not logic. Like it or not, there are plenty of instances where there is still discrimination for race, religion, etc. Hooters won’t hire male waiters, and a catholic church won’t marry a muslim couple. This is generally acceptable discrimination because nobody is injured. The muslim couple can still get married any other place and would really have no reason to want to do it in the catholic church. And not too many men would want to work as a waiter at hooters – they would get really bad tips. But if you think that this is unacceptable, you can refuse to go to those places and give them your money. It’s easier and more effective than trying to change the law. The law is a double edged sword. If you can use it to make other people do the things that you want them to do, they can just as easily use it to make you do the things you want to do. All men could ban together, form a majority and make it the law that women must be topless at all time – and you would follow this JUST BECAUSE IT’S THE LAW?

    • Jarret

      I wouldn’t mind hearing them. <-genuine interest.

      • Kirah Farrow

        Please bear with me. My response is lengthy.

        Well for one the main argument I’m hearing is about how because she was born different she would have an advantage.

        Once you begin Hormone Reassignment Therapy and have Sexual
        Reassignment Surgery you chemically and surgically kill any or most
        Traces of Testosterone found in the body.Testosterone has a lot to male
        muscle build up so once you eliminate it just have the competitive
        advantages and disadvantage of typical female athlete .

        Please note these so called “Advantages” are ignorant myths not supported by evidence.

        I quote from Huffingtonpost.

        “Most measures of physical strength minimize, muscle mass decreases,
        bone density decreases, and they become fairly comparable to women in
        their
        musculature. After as much time as has passed in her case, if
        tested, she would probably end up in the same muscle mass category as
        her
        biologically born female counterpart.”

        “The assumption that all male-bodied people are taller, stronger, and
        more highly skilled in a sport than all female-bodied people is not
        accurate.

        According to medical experts on this issue, the assumption that a
        transgender woman competing on a women’s team would have a competitive
        advantage outside the range of performance and competitive advantage or
        disadvantage that already exists among female athletes is not supported
        by evidence

        ” NCAA

        Even the International Olympic Committee agrees.As long as competitors have these guidelines.

        They must have had gender reassignment surgery.

        They must have legal recognition of their assigned gender.

        They must have at least two years of hormone therapy.

        So I regret to inform you Cross-fit is acting out of the better interest of ignorance.

        Sources

        ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/… )

        http://www.outsports.com/2011/

        http://www.salon.com/2013/06/3

        http://www.ncaa.org/sites/defa… – page 4 and 10.

        )

    • Kirah Farrow

      Please bear with me. My response is lengthy.

      Well for one the main argument I’m hearing is about how because she was born different she would have an advantage.

      Once you begin Hormone Reassignment Therapy and have Sexual Reassignment Surgery you chemically and surgically kill any or most Traces of Testosterone found in the body.Testosterone has a lot to male muscle build up so once you eliminate it just have the competitive advantages and disadvantage of typical female athlete .

      Please note these so called “Advantages” are ignorant myths not supported by evidence.

      I quote from Huffingtonpost.

      “Most measures of physical strength minimize, muscle mass decreases, bone density decreases, and they become fairly comparable to women in their
      musculature. After as much time as has passed in her case, if tested, she would probably end up in the same muscle mass category as her
      biologically born female counterpart.”

      “The assumption that all male-bodied people are taller, stronger, and more highly skilled in a sport than all female-bodied people is not accurate.

      According to medical experts on this issue, the assumption that a transgender woman competing on a women’s team would have a competitive advantage outside the range of performance and competitive advantage or disadvantage that already exists among female athletes is not supported by evidence

      ” NCAA

      Even the International Olympic Committee agrees.As long as competitors have these guidelines.

      They must have had gender reassignment surgery.

      They must have legal recognition of their assigned gender.

      They must have at least two years of hormone therapy.

      So I regret to inform you Cross-fit is acting out of the better interest of ignorance.

      Sources

      ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/do-transgender-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage_b_4918835.html )

      http://www.outsports.com/2011/9/12/4051806/moment-22-international-olympic-committee-allows-transgender-athletes

      http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/debunking_unfair_advantage_myths_about_trans_athletes_partner/

      http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Transgender_Handbook_2011_Final.pdf – page 4 and 10.

      )

      • macdabby

        See, this is a perfect example of an organization that is more open to this, and I congratulate them for not only being open to the idea but for doing their research!

        My main concern is the use of government force. If the tables were turned, a natural born female might be able to sue the NCAA for allowing a ‘man’ to compete against her. And while all the evidence may point to the fact that this person is more of a woman than a man by any standards, jurors and judges (and everyone else for that matter) typically put an emotional decision above a logical decision. I would prefer that instead of the government saying that this place has to allow her in, or they will be shut down, which involves the use of physical force and possibly confiscation of property, that the public band together in her support until the organization would either voluntarily accept her, or lose so much business that they have to shut down on their own.

        • Purple Shade

          And that would be a not-legally supportable position. If a trans* person faces discrimination and it goes to court, the evidence is in their favour.

          Side note trans* women are natural, and born women, the term you’re looking for, for ‘not-trans-women’ is “cisgendered women”.

          I am a cisgendered woman, it’s the accurate term.
          Believe me it’s the better choices for terms.
          If you encounter someone confused about the terms, or who doesn’t know what being cisgendered is, point them at the wikipedia article on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender