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April 1, 2014
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April 2, 2014

The relationship between Cathy Brennan and the SPLC

By M.A.Melby
@mamelby

 

In late November of last year, Secular Woman began a petition asking the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) to list Cathy Brennan’s Gender Identity Watch as a hate group.

In January, during the SPLC’s internal discussions concerning their yearly hate group list, Cathy Brennan made public her donations to the SPLC on her facebook page.

cb-check[1]

And the SPLC accepted her donation.

SPLCacceptance

When asked about the donations, the Gender Identity Watch twitter account claimed that Cathy Brennan routinely donated money to the SPLC.  Cathy Brennan has also previously been consulted by the SPLC on issues concerning fringe Men’s Rights Activists.

cbsplcnarrative1

When the SPLC list was later revealed, Gender Identity Watch was not included.  The stated reason was that Gender Identity Watch was not a “group” by their definition.  However, the SPLC did list a vehemently anti-gay and anti-trans religiously motivated lobbying group, The Pacific Justice Institute (PJI).

pji listed

Although Brennan denies ties to the PJI, interactions between Gender Identity Watch and the PJI have been documented by Transadvocate.

Shortly after the new hate group list was revealed, Gender Identity Watch turned on the SPLC in a March 6th blog post attributed to Cathy Brennan:

The Southern Poverty Law Center continues to diminish its reputation by labeling faith-based organizations as “hate groups” for such organizations’ opposition to homosexuality.

The article later accuses the SPLC of having a liberal bias, and being swayed by donations from the “liberal” LGBT community.

The more likely explanation is the GLBT people tend to be liberal, and liberals donate money to the organization.

The article also lambasts the SPLC for “mission drift” for targeting anti-LGBT hate groups.  It uses quotes around the phrases “hate crime” and “hate speech” in the context of the reaction to Matthew Shepard’s murder. Near the end of the article, Cathy Brennan writes:

Importantly, academics have started noticing this trend towards labeling all non-GLBT Movement-approved speech as “hate speech,…”

The article also implies that “faith-based” groups should be treated differently due to their ideological stances being based in religion.

gidlesbians[1]

Earlier, in late February, concerned with the donations made by Cathy Brennan, Sandy Hope of A Feminist Challenging Transphobia, contacted Mark Potok of the SPLC.  At first he was incredulous that Cathy Brennan was actually giving the SPLC money, responding in an e-mail:

I really have no idea what you mean when you talk about our “complicity” with Catherine Brennan. And where do you get the idea that we’re receiving donations from her? I don’t think that’s true.

Mark Potok
Senior Fellow

Hope then provided the SPLC with documentation of Brennan’s recent donation to the organization.  After several weeks, on March 19th, Potok responded in an e-mail:

We will not be accepting any further donations from Ms. Brennan.

Best,

Mark


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98 Comments

  1. dalmax says:

    I recently met a few ‘hardcore’ feminist lesbians at the home of someone I know locally; she is fairly hardcore but doesn’t repudiate people across the LGBT OR gender spectrums just because they are not like her. And from the ensuing conversations, I realized a few things:

    1 – Many radical feminist lesbians don’t seem to know the diversity of people within the gender spectrum; that not all transGENDER women are transSEXUAL women. Although even transsexual is a gross misnomer. But the point here is that many trans women, much like the RFLs, are refugees from the patriarchy. I may well have been imbued with it by nature of my birth, but my life circumstances didn’t allow me to recognize or enjoy it. And it is possibly the main reason so many trans women commit suicide.

    2 – Owing to the fact that the RFLs feel so persecuted, I believe that some of them make themselves feel better by demeaning trans women as lesser specimens of humanity. This allows them to not appear to be the bottom feeders in the social order of things.

    3 – RFLs appear to be taking cues from the playbook of crazy rightwingnut fundamentalcases. The truth is secondary to the passion with which they approach their mission. They absolutely DO look like hardcore republicans. And they don’t want resolution; they want to be angry. Without that…..they’d actually have to admit that possibly the entire global transgender population is not one big ball of fraud, impersonation, lies, predation, and privilege.

    HOWEVER…………

    4 – NO MAN can understand specifically what it is like to be prey simply by your birthright. I don’t OWN my womanhood; I had to fight for it. That doesn’t make me a bad person and despite the fact that I was aware of my gender dichotomy when I was 5 years old (I remember to this day when it first hit me) I did live the life of a (confused/disenfranchised/closeted) male until my early 40s. And despite the fact that my own family is not full of religious zealots, it was my own fear that kept me from reaching out and getting help earlier in my own life. That’s on me and I can’t be mad at Brennan, her friends, RFLs in general because THEY DIDN”T DO IT!

    5 – I don’t want to be in ANY space that doesn’t want me there. Why anyone would try and storm the gates of Michigan is beyond me; that is a place where trans women are MOST reviled!! What is the big effing deal with wanting to bust into women’s spaces? If you want to hang around with women, find some with whom you have common interests; movies, dining out, reading, hiking, cooking, knitting…..WHATEVER! But don’t hang out with them JUST BECAUSE it validates YOU! That’s not the basis for friendship anywhere!

    6 – From my own experience I have come to realize that often the most ardent defenders of the trans realm are newbies. Nothing revs up righteous indignation like a sudden awareness of an issue that here-to-fore has never crossed your radar but now has the potential to have a HUGE impact on you. I am amazed at the number of transitioners with less than 2 years under their belts who are the new warriors. At that stage of re-evolution you still don’t know who you are yet you are gong to resolve every issue between trans women and RFLs that ever existed with a clarity to don’t even know you don’t possess. When I hear a new-ish transitioner telling me that she is done with transition, I move back and wait for the explosion when reality sets in.

    6 – NOTHING is EVER going to get resolved until we, trans women, actually know WHAT we want to represent to RFLs. We will NEVER achieve parity by pushing ourselves into places we simply are not wanted. That so smacks of male privilege that it shames me to even know that people are doing this. And one of the biggest issues of all is our own self-images. We all want to be teenage girls (except for me apparently) and even re-write our histories. We drift towards form over substance; we play with hormones before we ever even anticipate transition because it is ‘a step’. You wanna take a step, take the beard off, learn how to cook and sew, stop acting like you own the planet because at some point THAT will be taken away from you. Face the real word, don’t use a man as the ultimate accessory to your own insecurities. But most of all………GET A LIFE!! Even if you DO successfully transition, can afford surgery, and you don’t implode your entire environment, life still goes on. The lawn needs mowing, the muffler fell off; the dishwasher shit the bed, and you have no clean laundry. THAT’S life, not prancing around pretending that we are intimately familiar with what it’s like to be a woman. *I* can only guess at it and I have many women friends. But I don’t use them, I hang out with them because we like each other.

    Before I make this an epic in the order of War and Peace, I’m gonna close here. This whole thing is a very complicated set of issues and there isn’t a simple solution to any of it. And it’s not all about you, or me. It’s about common decency, courtesy, and respect for people who may have a (somewhat radicalized) perspective that is not confluent with yours.

    • dalmax says:

      One very last thing………Cathy Brennan will never stop until she has a reason to. If everyone just let go (yes I know it’s difficult) and didn’t respond to her, all she would have left is her ‘loyal followers’ who are nothing more than other angry RFLs with poor social skills.

  2. MersennePrimaDonna says:

    The article opens by defending organizations’ “opposition to homosexuality” and criticize the SPLC for calling them hate groups…. This sent me to Google to verify that Brennan really is a lesbian because for a second I legit wondered if I’d just imagined that. I’m so confused.

    • sinmantyx says:

      Gender Identity Watch is against the “trans ideology” within the LGBT movement, so I doubt she sees herself as a part of it.

  3. DarlieB says:

    Between you and Cristan I am totally impressed. Well written, well documented investigative journalism. Really well done.

  4. Delphi Omally says:

    Wow……all of this stuff makes my head spin. Anyway, nothing speaks louder than what one does/spends his/her $…….nothing. If someone truly believes that just because someone is undergoing a sex/gender change to improve his/her life makes him/her criminally deviant in a default way, then they can only be one or more of the following:

    (1) incredibly stupid
    (2) incredibly hateful

    There is no in-between.

    Are most violent offenders male? Duh, yes. Are many violent offenders female? Duh, yes. However male to female persons reduce the one thing that makes males more violent than females: testosterone. Anyone that pretends not to know this is incredibly stupid.

    Is spreading rumors about others a nice thing to do (if applicable)? Duh, no. Is passing broad judgement on an entire group of people a loving thing to do? Duh, never. Anyone who spends any amount of time stating otherwise is incredibly hateful.

  5. kellibusey says:

    Looking at some of the comments I see some people trying to discredit the article or the obvious fact that TERF’s, and in particular ‘gender trender’ are a hate group. I dislike it when people do that ‘eye roll’ thing but I can’t help it, trying to stop them but my eyes are rolling.

  6. Dana Taylor says:

    I dub the Justin Allen Norwood as Feminist Dudebro the Mansplainer.

    • Hibernia86 says:

      Justin is a bigot, but saying that he is a “mansplainer” who has less right to talk about an issue just because of his gender, is sexist of you as well. You don’t get an excuse just because you correctly oppose Gender Identity Watch.

      • Dana Taylor says:

        Yes, he is a bigot. He is also thrusting himself into women’s issues so mansplainer fits him just fine.

        • Hibernia86 says:

          First of all men can talk about women’s issues. There are men who are pro-women’s rights and women who are anti-women’s rights. We should base all our beliefs on the facts, not on what gender we are. To suggest that only certain genders can talk about certain issues is bigoted. Second of all transsexual issues effect both genders since there are MTF and FTM transsexuals.

        • Justin Allen Norwood says:

          These are issues affecting the homosexual community at large, and as a gay male I defend my lesbian sisters.

  7. Gandin Cmail says:

    This article fails to quote the last two paragraphs of GIW’s blog post about SPLC, which read:

    “Perhaps it might be more productive, however, to simply stop labeling
    people as promoting “hate speech” simply because we disagree with their
    ideas, or their ideas make us feel bad. Perhaps it might be more
    productive, in fact, to debate actual issues.

    Perhaps we, as Gay and Lesbian people, might actually
    learn to understand that “diversity” means “diversity of opinion,” and
    that others were not placed on this earth to affirm our lives. Our
    movement should prevail because it is a movement for social justice, not
    because we bully our opponents into submission.”

    • Savannah says:

      Most of those “disagreements” are expressed by TERFs and their allies through personal attacks and defamation campaigns, both of which are clearly expressed as forms of hatred.

  8. Justin Allen Norwood says:

    M.A. Melby ,
    I’m truly curious as to how you can actually try to validate Gender Identity Watch as a hate group, though you and your followers and I’m sure many well meaning people do. One thing I notice that you tend to be good at though, and actually do is shut down people you don’t agree with by block botting them and trying to silence them in any format they may present in. I suppose you think you’re doing something noble or heroic, but it’s deeply homophobic and offensive in that the people who you are trying curb are actually members of the L&G community(Not to mention gender critical Trans women that you disagree with.). GIDwatch is comprised of homosexual people who are concerned with the rights of female people and seek to find means to abolish gender as it as seen as a tool of oppression against the female class. This isn’t hateful speech. Please consider what you are doing by silencing the voices of lesbian and gay people.

    Thank you.

    • Charlene Leona Marks says:

      She considers trans-peoples especially MTF as rapist and contact their employers, doctors and other’s and makes their lives impossible. Also some of the trans communities greatest foes are gay and lesbian. So yes what she spews is hate speech,

      • Justin Allen Norwood says:

        We are talking about Gender Identity Watch though, Not what Cathy Brennan has allegedly done.

        • Laurelai Bailey says:

          Its not alleged, its been proven, as in there is proof. and CB is behind GIW

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            GIW is not just CB.

          • Aura Willow Hazel says:

            it is these days, that and a few thousand bought likes.

          • marti386 says:

            “GIW is not just CB.”

            Wow, I though you were just an asshole, but your also blazing naïve, aren’t you?

            Of COURSE GIW is Cathy Brennan. There IS no one else there but Cathy Brennan. Have you ever noticed how there’s NO other names listed other than Brennan? You think that just because she marks some of her posts as Cathy Brennan, and some as GID, that means there’s others? REALLY?

            If you honestly believe that , I have a bridge I’d like to sell you, Justin.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            I know for a fact that you are wrong.

          • marti386 says:

            “I know for a fact that you are wrong.”

            Actually, you don’t. You really don’t.

          • sinmantyx says:

            So, I’m right? You are one of the people on their twitter account?

            I was hoping I was wrong.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            All I am saying is that I know for a fact that GIDwatch is comprised of more than one person. Volunteers. I will not confirm or deny my involvement with them.

          • marti386 says:

            “I will not confirm or deny my involvement with them.”

            Ooooooooooo!!! Justin won’t confirm or deny his involvement!

            Because he’s………………………Justin Norwood, super spy.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            HAHAHA. I liked that.

          • marti386 says:

            You know, if you could throw off your radfem brainwashing, you’d actually be an okay guy.

            I’ve got an idea. How about you try listening to actual trans women about our lives and experiences, instead of listening to some cis women who know even less about us than you do? You might actually learn something. 😉

          • Elise Erzsébet Kis says:

            Just curious, given your views on trans women, why are you here? Is your life so empty of meaning that you need to get your jollies picking fights with trans women?

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            I’m here because I’m a friend of Brennan and GIDwatch. I’m here because I support females and Homosexuals. Trans politics contradict that and trans women are obviously the one’s spearheading those platforms.

          • sinmantyx says:

            Considering how quickly and vehemently and completely Justin has become involved with the terf-crew, I’ve seriously considered he might be a spy – essentially an infiltrator. I mean, he’s even (according to his twitter) become a member of Deep Green Resistance, and works with both Cathy Brennan and Gallus Mag (who hate each other). What next? Live-tweeting from Janice Raymond book signings?

            Justin Norwood – super spy.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            A spy for whom exactly?

          • sinmantyx says:

            I don’t know.

            FBI – let’s go with FBI. Or, better yet, a splinter cell of Bash Back. Maybe the SPLC has a secret covert operative wing.

            Josephine.

            [That’s a reference to a movie.]

          • marti386 says:

            Sounds like a song.

            “Justin Norwood, SUUUUPER spy.

            Cooler than the Coolest guy.

            Kiss the boys and make them DIIIIIIIIIIIE.

            Heeeeeeeee’s Justin Norwood, SUUUUUUUPER SPYYYYYYYYY!”

            😀

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            I love it. thank you.

    • Bailey Summers says:

      Spoken by a true anti-trans equivalent to an MRA. Justin haven’t you been blocked for trolling?

      Even going after people on twitter like one of the staff here.

      GID watch is a hate group as is it’s prime founders which is why even many Radfems disavow her and her attack dogs.

      Oh and they’re not silencing gay or lesbian voices but standing up to hateful bullies but you and your crowd are still deeply entrenched is that same though were others finding a voice, stopping hateful little beings like you is taking their rights to hate.

      Begone before we call for a billygoat.

      • Justin Allen Norwood says:

        Bailey we are actually part of the same FB group and I civilly engage with people there, including you, quite often. This is civil dialogue.

        • Laurelai Bailey says:

          You cannot civilly engage in bigotry as it is inherently uncivil. You are a bigot. Go away.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            ^ silencing tactics. Laurelai, we can be civil in the discussion of gender, which is what this is all about. Gender hurts, no one is denying you the pain it may have caused you in your life, and the lives of many. Rather than be celebratory of gender, we are simply critical of it.

          • Laurelai Bailey says:

            No, you aren’t. Your aim is to attack trans women, and gender isnt what hurts, oppression is what hurts. Discrimination is what hurts. Gender *roles* are what hurt. Trans women being denied life saving resources is what hurts. Go. Away.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            My aim is not to attack transwomen, my aim is to attack gender which transwomen (and oddly not really transmen.) are very loudly and often vulgarly defending. I agree with you that discrimination and oppression hurt, but I do believe we reach a stalemate on the word “gender”. I’ve yet to see gender afford privilege to any woman, and is quite often what leads to the homophobia faced by many gay men and lesbians, who, thanks to their gender expression (and thus their identity, because people do express who they are.) are targeted, harassed and at worst a victim of a hate crime. this is a serious conversation, and these conversations must take place.

          • Aura Willow Hazel says:

            dude I try to defy every convention of gender there is. I still needed the o[p though as my body felt fundementally wrong. If you must blame something blame the clinic system for enforcing gender roles not the victims for needing medical care (how dare they demand bodily autonomy do they think they’re human or something?) Brenna nhas in the past tried to interfere with peoples access to the surgery and hormones which in many cases are the vonl7 things keeping us alive.

    • Chris Winters says:

      if Transadvocate were silencing people as you say, then your post would not be here. Caught in another lie, eh?

      • Justin Allen Norwood says:

        M.A. Melby is silencing people, especially on twitter. I never claimed the transadvocate was.

        • Chris Winters says:

          Dude, you’re a young cute guy. Go find yourself a boyfriend or a girlfriend, whichever you prefer. Have some fun. Stop worrying about what trans people are doing. They’re not oppressing you or Brennan. Jeeeeesh!

          • Aura Willow Hazel says:

            cept anybody who reads what he writes wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot barge pole.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            I’m engaged actually so none of this is a concern…but thanks for your concern?

          • sinmantyx says:

            Congratulations. Sincerely.

          • Aura Willow Hazel says:

            you’d be decent if you/d drop your irrational obsession with bashing trans people. Sadly you actually seem to genuinely BELIEVE the lies spouted by the TERF community.

        • Armozel says:

          So… Criticizing people equals silencing… Where have I heard this rhetoric before? OH YES! With the Brendan Eich situation, in which said person never was silenced. Wow, you folks are starting to use the same bunk as the social conservatives. WTG!

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            No, I think we should open doors to dialogue. Criticizing and blacklisting are very different things.

          • Armozel says:

            In the case of Cathy Brennan, I think she should be blacklisted from the conversation. Much of her ‘work’ reads like that of a 13 y/o boy that just finished reading Atlas Shrugged. It’s naive at best, and vitriolic at worse. Her tactics are very similar to scumbag lawyers like Jack Thompson, so I have little to no sympathies for the flak she receives.

            In the end, she needs to be pushed out of the conversation until she can prove herself worthy of engagement. Not the other way around.

          • marti386 says:

            “No, I think we should open doors to dialogue”.

            Telling everyone we’re perverts and sexual predators who can’t be trusted in the women’s restrooms ISN’T a “dialogue”, Justin. Open your fucking ears.

            Telling people my identity isn’t valid is NOT a “dialogue”.

            Telling people I’m a “male supremacists who want to skin real women to wear as my womanly guise” is NOT a “dialogue”.

            Telling people I benefit from male privilege when I don’t is NOT a “dialogue”.

            Telling people that trans women are sleeper agents for the patriarchy who want to destroy feminism from the inside ISN’T a “dialogue”.

            Telling people that trans women who don’t reveal their trans status are rapists ISN’T a “dialogue”.

            Telling people trans women are trying to force their way into lesbian’s panties is NOT a “dialogue”.

            It’s all a bunch of lying horse shit. When radfems have anything honest to bring to the table, THEN I’ll listen.

            UNTIL then, they need to stay the fuck out of my face. And that includes you.

    • Guest says:

      If you want to know. You can read the petition.

      I am up for discussion, almost to a fault. I have blocked very few people from my personal accounts and personal blog. However, I reserve the right to disengage.

      The decision to engage is a matter of consent. The people using the Block Bot are simply being provided a tool to be able to managed that engagement. You do not have a right to their time and energy or attention. You are not entitled to that.

      I’m not “silencing” anyone, nor will I be silenced.

      I’m also in a privileged position because society is willing to defend me. It is socially unacceptable to attack me in ways that take advantage of my emotional vulnerabilities. I can imagine even believers like you would not be able to rationalize attacks against me that involve my children, for example.

      However, with others, those vulnerabilities are apparent and open to exploitation. For example, the coordinated attack you participated in against journalist Parker Molloy order by Gallus Mag; that took advantage of her insecurities and openly and directly interfered in her professional life by vandalizing her news articles with harassing comments.

      • Justin Allen Norwood says:

        Many people thought it was shameful, that in the age of most of the public becoming aware of acid attacks destroying the faces of women, that someone like Molloy would take to the internet to solicit funds for one. You will certainly see me engaged in some speech that drips sarcasm in regards to detestable behavior. Molloy is problematic, I think there was an article the other day published that just brought this to light by Calperina.
        I have read the petition and the petition seems to only focus on the actions of Cathy Brennan, I don’t find this to be fair, because for one, you can’t label a person as a hate group, and two because GIDwatch is comprised of more than just CB(thus isn’t CB), who are homosexual people, the concerns of GID also reflect the concerns of many L&G ppl.
        I’m thankful for your response Melby, and having listened to your interview on swirl, enjoy that you seem very civil about things. I have noticed this with you. While you didn’t call out “get fucked” and “suck my dick” as misogynist, you did admit that it was problematic, which is AT LEAST something.

        • sinmantyx says:

          That is not a reasonable argument, much less a good rationale for targeting someone for that type of attack. By that standard, nobody would be given health care except in the most extreme cases.

          That fallacy is used all the time to belittle the needs of women, due to someone else, somewhere, having it worse.

          *She* is not “problematic”….people are not “problematic”.

          Calling someone an “autogynophilliac” is problematic. Interfering directly with their work is problematic. Referring to a person by their former name to invalidate their self-determination is problematic. Misgendering someone is problematic.

          And underneath all that nastiness and crap, providing a firm foundation for that hatred, is an unyielding ideology that erases and delegitimizes the lived experience of real people who lives are harmed in real ways, who suffer and sometimes die young, because our society constantly invalidates and attacks their very sense of self and worth.

          This is similar to how gays and lesbians are told that their compulsion to love who they love is a sickness, a delusion, is unnatural, is something to be overcome and not celebrated – that they are “problematic” people.

          I know you don’t see that; because you’ve swallowed a pile of crap that may make sense in an alternate universe, but not the reality we currently live in. I hope one day you wise up.

    • shivadog says:

      I just looked at the website for Gender Identity Watch and they sure as hell sound like a hate group. They basically claim that all child molesters are transgender and transgender people are all rapists. Truly one of the most hateful websites I’ve ever seen. For you to try to say they are just “concerned with the rights of female people” is utter bullshit.

      • Justin Allen Norwood says:

        I know GIW website and Facebook. It does not AT ALL make that claim. this is very disingenuous for you to posit.

        • shivadog says:

          OK you are a lying piece of shit. I’m looking at their website right now. Under “transwomen & Sexualized Violence” It says that “Almost 100% if convicted sex offenders” are “TRANSGENDER” below that is has a part that says “this is what transgender does” and lists things like “rape and kill 6 year old girls” “are sexual predators” “T rape women” Anyone can go look at it. It is hateful and you are a lying fuck.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            Link me to that please because it actually doesn’t say that.

          • shivadog says:

            Bullshit. go to Gender Identity Watch.com. look under “transwomen & Sexualized Violence”

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            So quoting articles which site statistical information is hateful (Has this information been debunked?) I don’t happen to think that most or all TW are sexual predators to clarify. I think there are sexual predators everywhere, and I think most are men. Making a distinction between men’s predatory behavior based on this isn’t something I personally agree with.

          • shivadog says:

            So you are just lying. You claimed “it doesn’t actually say that” when it damn well does, and now we know you are not as uninformed as you claimed, and are just defending this hateful crap. And I don’t know if the information has been debunked, but it sounds like shit to me. Statistical information is notorious for being twisted to support whatever point of view you want to push. And the rest of it was listing crimes allegedly committed by transgendered people which remind me of hate groups who talk about a crime committed by a LGBT person to make it look like all LGBT people commit such crimes. The whole site is trying to stir up hatred towards trans people. One of the most hateful websites I’ve ever seen. And you are a lying piece of shit trying to defend this Nazi crap.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            No, I wasn’t aware of that section or what it said apparently. It’s a rather extensive site and I’ve not read anything (until now) that promotes that claim as one of it’s positions- but I will state publicly if the position of GIDwatch is that most trans people are predatory it’s a position I don’t agree with.

          • shivadog says:

            The whole site is about hating on trans people. Are you going to claim you don’t know that? That was a rhetorical question by the way. I don’t expect or want an answer. You have done nothing but lie and obfuscate. You are promoting and defending hate.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            blah blah blah blah. liar you bigot hater you. you.hate. bigot. blah.

            This is all I hear from you anyhow. have a great night, work on your dialogue skills.

          • sinmantyx says:

            If that’s all you heard, you aren’t listening.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            That was in reply to Shivadog, not your response which I’m grateful you have taken the time for.

          • sinmantyx says:

            I know. Just saying, just because someone is angry doesn’t result in their words having no meaning.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            I agree, I’m not trying to discount the anger. But the “you’re a liar, you’re a bigot” gets tedious when trying to have a conversation. I think things can be conveyed better. I’m here talking about this, obviously I have some anger too.

          • marti386 says:

            “But the “you’re a liar, you’re a bigot” gets tedious when trying to have a conversation.”

            If you want people to stop calling you a liar and a bigot, you should stop being a liar and a bigot. Don’t blame us for pointing out the truth.

            You got up here and claimed GIW isn’t a hate group. You lied. It is, and we proved it. But rather than admit your wrong and listening, you want to get all “I’m angry too”.

            Here’s a tip. If you don’t want people to get angry at you, stop making them angry.

            You’ll find it works wonders.

          • shivadog says:

            fuck you, I don’t need a dialogue with you. all you have done here is lie.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            And people wonder why we see male socialization in people: “fuck you” is violent language. If you don’t need or want a dialogue stop replying and kindly have a great day.

          • shivadog says:

            I am just here to tell people that you are a lying piece of shit and Gender Identity Watch is a hateful website. I would invite anyone reading this to go see for them self what the site says. It is all about hating on trans women.

          • marti386 says:

            “And people wonder why we see male socialization in people: “fuck you” is violent language.”

            Justin utters this in complete sincerity, ironically oblivious to the fact that he’s a cis male, white, entitled douchebro who came onto a woman’s site to lecture us all about “male socialization”.

            Fuck you, Justin. Go join the MRA. You’d fit in well there.

          • Hibernia86 says:

            Justin is wrong and bigoted, but you suggesting that he has less right to comment because he is cis, male, and white is also bigoted.

          • marti386 says:

            Sorry, but I’m not interested in supporting Justin’s rights to make shit up about trans women. Go cry to someone else.

          • Hibernia86 says:

            Even if “fuck you” was violent language (which it isn’t) that doesn’t make it male socialization. That is a sexist assumption.

          • marti386 says:

            “This is all I hear from you anyhow. have a great night, work on your dialogue skills.”

            Then you’re a bigger douchebro than I though you were. If that’s all you heard, it proves you’re not interested in listening.

            Go spread your radfem garbage elsewhere.

          • Hibernia86 says:

            Also, using the world “bro” as an insult is also sexist. It sounds like the both of you have a lot to learn.

          • marti386 says:

            “Also, using the world “bro” as an insult is also sexist.”

            Yeah, it’s an insult. It was meant to be. and NO, it’s not sexist, since it’s spun off the term “dudebro”, and used all the time by women.

          • marti386 says:

            “No, I wasn’t aware of that section or what it said apparently.”

            Then apparently you’re an idiot. This is standard operating procedure for your radfem buddies. They ALL do it. ALL the time. And if you didn’t even know that, you should shut the fuck up about trans people.

            Cuz you don’t have a CLUE about who you’re getting in bed with.

          • sinmantyx says:

            It’s similar to quoting “studies” that link male homosexuality to child sexual abuse. Or using incidents of men molesting boys, as proof that homosexuality is perversion and that gays are dangerous.

            Panty PoPo brings out these incidents and plasters them on trans positive hash-tags. Cathy Brennan mentioned “dozens” of incidents in her interview with Swirl.

            “Stop Blaming Women” (not directly associated with GIDW, but in the same camp) said it outright.

            This is the playbook that you’ve been given Justin.

          • marti386 says:

            “So quoting articles which site statistical information is hateful”

            Hmmmm. Except there’s nothing “statistical” going on here, is there?

            Let’s take a look at what Brennan is actually doing.

            First, she’s linking to another article. That’s all. That puts any blame for incorrect information in the lap of “Pantypopo’. In other words, Brennan is too much of a chicken shit to even make these allegations herself. She just quotes them as if they were fact.

            Except they’re NOT.

            Honestly Justin, if you could have a legitimate debate about this, You radfems wouldn’t need to keep making this up this ridiculous horse shit.

            Let’s look at Pantypopo’s actual “article” that Brennan seems to think is some kind of proof, shall we?

            In classic radfem style, she throws out a bunch of numbers with exactly zero proof or data to back them up.

            “88% of the transgender population” “reported by their own advocacy organizations, are males with a psychosexual disorder.”

            WHERE is the data to support this? If our own “advocacy organizations” back this, then she should be able to provide links to such, correct? And yet she doesn’t. Because like the vast majority of radfems, she just pulls made up “facts” out of her ass whenever it’s convenient.

            “Many men with psychosexual disorders practice their fetish in the privacy of their own homes. But as many as 13,946,348 of them in the US, at the time of this writing, will be free to practice their fetish in public, in front of your children, in women’s locker rooms, in the girls bathroom at school.”

            Links, please. Where’s the data to back this up? She doesn’t provide any.

            “Transgender fetish is the largest sexual disorder reported in convicted sex offenders. Almost 100% of convicted sex offenders have a documented history of transvestism, crossdressing, free-dressing, Autogynephilia, transsexualism – in other words: TRANSGENDER.”

            Well, she says it right THERE. almost 100% of all convicted sex offenders are in some way transgender. I’m sure she can back that up right? Oh, WAIT. She can’t.

            This kind of horse shit happens ALL the time in the radfem blog-o-sphere. And they just make it up. I just had a LONG debate with a radfem on another forum, where she kept making up “facts” like this, yet refused to provide anything to back her up.

            Because she COULDN’T. Just like this loser.

            After throwing out a bunch of other numbers she can’t prove, she moves on to the “proof”. That is to say, she provides a handful of cherry picked incidents that she thinks will be read as proof to the foolish. And since you seem to be a grade-A fool, Justin, you just can’t lap it up fast enough.

            Here’s what kills me. ANYTIME radfems try to show “proof” that trans women are “violent sex predators”, it ALWAYS boils down to a handful of cherry picked stories that are 10 years old or older. Seriously, that radfem I was debating tried to use Richard Speck as an “example” of why trans women can’t be trusted.

            Richard fucking Speck.

            You know, the guy who killed nurses 48 fucking years ago? The guy who died 23 years ago? The guy who was a guy the entire time he killed those women? The guy who died in prison? The guy who she tried to claim was a trans woman based on a 1996 tape (released 5 years after his death) that showed him taking black market hormones so he could be another inmate’s bitch in prison? That guy. Her actual argument was that even though I’ve used women’s restrooms for 12 years now, I can’t be trusted because I’m a sexual predator. Because Richard Speck.

            The thing that kills me is that some of these “examples” aren’t even the SLIGHEST bit trans related.

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2288024/Man-fetish-high-heels-jailed-trying-steal-womans-shoes-feet.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

            This guy has a shoe fetish. That’s it. The tip-off would be the headline which reads “Man with a fetish for high heels is jailed after trying to steal woman’s shoes from her feet.” The article also mentions that the perp gets sexual thrills from holding the shoes, and not from actually wearing them. Who knew shoe fetish was now a form of transgenderism? Pantypopo seems to think so.

            http://www.abqjournal.com/76441/north/man-accused-of-exposing-self.html

            This guy isn’t trans either. He’s not even wearing women’s clothes. HOW is this an “example” of “trans sexual predators”, Justin?

            http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-news/20130306/torrance-police-use-dna-to-tie-slain-would-be-rapist-to-1990-venice-murder

            Here she claims trans women are murderers, when in fact it is the trans woman who was MURDERED. The murderer is just a cis male dude.

            And of course, the rest of this VERY long list is utter bullshit. Just to point it out, a flasher wearing women’s panties is NOT a trans woman. A man running around in nothing but high heels is NOT a trans woman. A man attacking a woman while wearing women’s clothes is NOT a trans woman. Trans women live there lives as women and identify as women. We are not perverts who dress in undies for kicks. Please stop conflating the two.

            The fact is, these dudes are just garden variety perverts, or cis male cross dressers. Why do you suppose that whenever radfems provide “proof” such as this that claims trans women can’t be trusted in women’s restrooms, it’s NEVER examples of actual trans women actually assaulting cis women in actual women’s restrooms?

            That would be because they can’t really find any. NO radfem I’ve ever challenged has been able to provide any proof of such. EVER. Yet they continue to lie like dogs, using page after page of pathetic “examples” like these, that have nothing to do with trans women whatsoever.

            Why do you suppose they have to lie like that, Justin? Hmmmm? Could it be because they’re a bunch of lying shit eaters? And why do assholes like you lap it up?

            But, hey. You don’t have to worry about it. It’s not like gay guys are all violent perverts or anything, right?

            http://gothamist.com/2011/03/15/straight_teen_beaten_by_attackers_y.php

            http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130625/logan-square/gay-man-killed-wife-for-insurance-money-prosecutors-say

            http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/high-school-football-star-stabs-older-male-lover-death-cops-article-1.1526375

            http://www.advocate.com/crime/2012/10/10/model-admits-he-killed-boyfriend-and-wore-his-testicles-his-wrists

            http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime-and-courts/cliffside-park-man-convicted-of-killing-dismembering-live-in-boyfriend-1.567073

            http://elitedaily.com/news/world/fugitive-cannibal-porn-star-arrested-killing-dismembering-gay-lover/

            There you go. PROOF that all you gay men are sick, twisted fucks. Every last one of you. Or at least it would be, if I followed radfem logic.

            What’s that you say? This tiny handful of criminals don’t represent the vast majority of gay men such as yourself? I’m skewing the data by cherry picking only the stories I want in order to portray you as a pervo?

            Welcome to MY world, Justin.

            NOW imagine there is a group of sick, twisted women who are SO filled with hatred against you that they create ENTIRE websites dedicated to nothing but making you look like a pervo. ENTIRE websites that put false story after false story up as “proof” that you can’t be trusted.

            Those are YOUR radfem buddies. They do this ALL the time, ANYWHERE they can get a chance to. They come to trans-friendly women’s spaces and try to spread this crap in order to scare women. To turn women against us. ALL the fucking time.

            If you have even HALF a brain, you’d have to wonder why your buddies are such lying asshats, wouldn’t you? You’d have to wonder why they spew the same bullshit garbage that rightwing organizations do. You’d have to wonder how they can call themselves feminists, while aligning with groups that are both anti-gay and anti-woman, in order to oppress trans people.

            So DO you have half a brain, Justin?

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            I stated up thread that I disagree with the claim that most trans people (the 88% cited) are predatory, also as you admitted it wasn’t information generated by GIDwatch. If you notice on the GIDwatch FB page there are many positive articles posted. this isn’t necessarily an endorsement.

          • marti386 says:

            “I stated up thread that I disagree with the claim that most trans people (the 88% cited) are predatory, also as you admitted it wasn’t information generated by GIDwatch.”

            That wasn’t the point I was making, Justin. I want to know what you think about radfems making this shit up. I wan’t to know HOW you can align yourself with women who pull this atrocious bullshit. I want to know how YOU’D feel if they pulled this crap on you. I’d like to know how you’d feel if you had to put up with this every fucking day of your life.

            I also pointed out that although Brennan didn’t write the article, she joined in the radfem circle jerk that endlessly posts these kind of examples from each others blogs as some kind of proof that trans women are predators. Which makes her just as bad.

            I’ve got an idea. How about you go over to GID and Pantypopo’s sites, and drop them a comment telling them about how you don’t agree with their methods?

            And watch how fast they turn on you. Watch how fast they ban you. Because they only let guys like you and Nicky hang around as long as you lick their ass. Because under it all, they really hate you’re guts as much as mine.

            Cuz you’re a man. And they HATE you for it.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            I don’t think I’m hated because I’m male. I don’t at all feel hated by them, and I posit that women have all the right to in the world to hate men regardless if they hate me or not.

          • Hibernia86 says:

            Really Justin? They have “all the right in the world to hate men”? No, they don’t. If they do they are bigots, end of story.

          • Justin Allen Norwood says:

            No they are not. Are the oppressed obligated to coddle their oppressors? No. They can hate them with impunity as far as I’m concerned.

          • shivadog says:

            There is the like below, now please tell us if you are actually defending this hateful crap or are just strangely uninformed about something you so passionately defend.

    • sinmantyx says:

      If you want to know. You can read the petition.

      I am up for discussion, almost to a fault. I have blocked very few people from my personal accounts and personal blog. However, I reserve the right to disengage.

      The decision to engage is a matter of consent. The people using the Block Bot are simply being provided a tool to be able to managed that engagement. You do not have a right to their time and energy or attention. You are not entitled to that.

      I’m not “silencing” anyone, nor will I be silenced.

      You participated in a coordinated attack against journalist Parker Molloy order by Gallus Mag; that took advantage of her insecurities and openly and directly interfered in her professional life by vandalizing her news articles with harassing comments.

      That is silencing.

      [This is a revised re-post of the deleted comment. I had tried to revise it right away, but the system didn’t respond the way I thought it was going to. Apologies.]

    • dalmax says:

      Justin – You don’t look old enough to have such extremist views. Then again, I have learned from some of my gay male friends that trans phobia can be found in that segment of the LGBT population as well.

      So you think it’s okay for a rabid lesbian feminist to be totally dismissive of trans women as a class of people? What did you get your degrees in anyway?

      And for the record, Gender Identity Watch IS pretty much Cathy Brennan. You sound like a trollish shill for her. She has other people posting but they are all friends of hers; other radical feminists (I HATE the TERF thing; it just makes matters worse).

      What REALLY bugs me is that Brennan herself posted less than 6 weeks ago that he wanted to start a dialog whereby there could be less toxicity between trans women and hardcore feminists. RIGHT ON THE HEELS OF THAT she started a new diatribe against us.

      So unless you have expertise in this, step back!

    • Bob Bigot says:

      You are a shill for Cathy Brennan. Just admit your identity.

  9. Gandin Cmail says:

    “Hate speech” is not a real legal thing in the U.S. and so it deserves quotation marks. You do not link to the GIW article you selectively quote from. How is this journalism?

  10. William Burns says:

    Liberal bias, “hate speech” in quotation marks, caricaturing opposing positions as “human biology is just a social construct–fascinating how Gender Identity Watch is adopting the vocabulary and intellectual framework of the Right.

    • Bailey Summers says:

      Exactly so, these people espouse to being for women’s rights, lesbian and gay rights but in reality they’re the Tea party of radical feminism.

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